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Re: Political Rhetoric Vocabulary

From: R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 07:33:55 -0700
Message-ID: <CABieRR+A0jhm8CJWmF-Gf3LioprppiE+kJ1oarqrKR9GMs+mWQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chaals from Yandex <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>, Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
There are two differences. There are statements made by heads of state that
are not proclamations. Such as vetos, executive actions and many more.
Second, not all proclamations are made by a head of state. Heck, my little
town of Los Altos periodically makes proclamations.

guha

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, <chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:

> Hi Guha,
>
> a few clarifying questions…
>
> 17.03.2017, 21:09, "R.V.Guha" <guha@guha.com>:
>
> Revised, highly simplified first step for the core.
>
>
> Political Discourse Vocabulary
>
>
> New subClass of CreativeWork: Speech, PressRelease, HeadOfStateStatement,
> Proclamation, ExecutiveAction
>
>
> Can you explain what the difference is between a HeadOfStateStatement and
> a Proclamation?
>
> And what an ExecutiveAction is - particularly because it looks like
> something out of the Actions vocabulary…
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> New subClass of Speech: InauguralAddress, CommencementAddress,
> CampaignSpeech, StateOfUnionReport
>
>
> Is the difference between an InauguralAddress and a CommencementAddress
> that in the former it is the first speech of an office-holder, while in the
> latter it is a speech to some other group, such as the king or governer or
> someone opening parliament?
>
> StateOfUnionReport seems to be one of a class of regular events. It
> doesn't seem that the State of the Union is different from any number of
> memorial speeches presented annually, the annual "budget speech" of the
> Australian government, and so on. I suggest we generalise this to
> "RecurrentSpeechEvent" or something - the name of the event should be
> enough to identify it rather than having to make a stack of classes for
> specific events.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> New subClass of Event: PressEvent
>
>
> Seems reasonable enough.
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:
>
> On 16 March 2017 at 21:55, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
> > You are right. Political Discourse might be a better name for it.
>
> There are various overlapping ways in which these things might be
> organized wr.t. "named hosted extension" subdomains ("lega" has been
> mentioned for related work around legislation, courts etc; "civic" is
> also in the air). My suggestion would be to asap get the basic term
> definitions drafted into the "pending" section so that they can be
> used and tested, and worry about how to name packages of terms as a
> separable problem. Any attempt to partition vocab is always tricky
> (e.g. ClaimReview for fact-checking is also discourse/argumentation)
> but it shouldn't stop us from getting the basics in place. I'd also
> like to see the earlier Legislation proposal progress, and wouldn't
> want to slow either of these down by forcing a big debate for whether
> they are part of a big "legal" vs "civic" vs "discourse" section....
>
> Dan
>
> ps. we also have http://pending.schema.org/Quotation which has some
> discussion in https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/271 around
> citations and date/time details
>
>
> > guha
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Joe Duarte <songofapollo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Okay, so now that I see the subClasses, I'm not sure this is about
> >> rhetoric. I thought this vocab was going to be about the sorts of
> arguments
> >> and appeals that people make in politics, maybe something along the
> lines of
> >> AML: http://www.ai.sri.com/~seas/aml/
> >>
> >> or what this W3C group is working on:
> >> https://www.w3.org/community/argumentation/
> >>
> >> Rhetoric is about language, persuasion, and reasoning:
> >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric
> >>
> >> Another way to put it: rhetoric is about content and style.
> >>
> >> The vocab we have so far seems more like a list of events, of venues
> where
> >> a politician might give a speech, as well as a couple of documents a US
> >> President might issue (and others have noted the US-centricity of it).
> >> That's not really about rhetoric – that's just a list of things
> Presidents
> >> do in the general domain of speeches and press releases.
> >>
> >> It also strikes me as odd that Political Rhetoric would be narrowed down
> >> to what chief executives of a nation do. Even if we thought that
> rhetoric
> >> meant giving a speech to this audience, then to another audience, etc.,
> >> there's no reason to suppose that the only speakers we care about are
> chief
> >> executives of countries. That's not even half of the goings-on in the
> domain
> >> of politicians going around giving speeches and releasing statements or
> >> orders. There are legislators, governors, state legislators, lobbyists,
> >> activists, etc. – a lot of political action of the speeches-and-releases
> >> variety doesn't even come from people in government, but people outside
> of
> >> it. So if this is meant specifically to encode some important things
> about
> >> what national chief executives do, I suggest calling it something more
> like
> >> Political Events or Political Addresses.
> >>
> >> By the way, I'll probably try to dovetail with this at some point in the
> >> next or so – I own argumentbase.com (there's nothing there yet), but I
> plan
> >> to build a schema for arguments and positions (mostly political in
> nature),
> >> including evidence quality, which will be very interesting and perilous
> as
> >> far as pulling it off without ruining it with unconscious political
> biases
> >> (I'm the lead author of this paper, so I'm always worried about
> political
> >> bias.) I'll need a lot of help to keep it clean and maximally useful.
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Absolutely. My hope is to have both.
> >>>
> >>> guha
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My preference is for InauguralAddress, as HOS is specific to the
> country
> >>>> level, but I would like to be able to describe entities such as those
> in
> >>>> this page:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.westgov.org/news/357-news-2017/1341-western-
> governors-deliver-inaugural-speeches
> >>>>
> >>>> --Eric
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 3:54 PM, R.V.Guha <guha@guha.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What is the reasoning behind having both "InauguralAddress" and
> >>>>>> "USPInauguralAddress"? My concern is that (unless we adopt a less
> US-centric
> >>>>>> prefix such as "HOS" - see below) then we will end up with requests
> for
> >>>>>> near-identical classes for many other major countries.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> InauguralAddress could potentially cover a much larger set of
> >>>>> inaugurals. but I completely agree with your suggestion of replacing
> USP
> >>>>> with HOS.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> guha
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Eric Axel Franzon
> >>>>
> >>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon
> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel
> >>>> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon
> >>>> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - standards - Yandex
> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>
>
Received on Saturday, 25 March 2017 14:34:29 UTC

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