W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-schemaorg@w3.org > September 2016

Re: Health-Lifesci extension question

From: Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:01:08 +0000
Message-ID: <CAM1Sok1enDQ2a_w3FgdVLYwD=WXzetbnOCZrAw=fu+StP6yuNg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Cc: Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>, Marc Twagirumukiza <twamarc@gmail.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 at 21:20 Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:

> On 11 September 2016 at 05:13, Timothy Holborn
> <timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > so,
> >
> > https://www.google.com.au/search?q=diet+food+drinks&tbm=shop
> >
> > Results show the top food results relating to health often relates to
> > pet-care.
> >
> > https://www.google.com.au/search?q=diet+meal&tbm=shop  isnt much better.
> >
> > https://www.google.com.au/search?tbm=shop&q=dietary+supplements  shows
> > mostly pills (note the use of the term 'dietary supplements')
> >
> > https://www.google.com.au/search?tbm=shop&q=diet+lifestyle yields books
> >
> > https://www.google.com.au/search?q=diet+lifestyle&tbm=isch yields a
> bunch of
> > images saying "not a diet, its a lifestyle"
> >
> > and i haven't seen a diet cola bottle yet.
>
> Your point being?
>

my thought process was to have a look at the various ways in which the
linguistics were being prioritised in search; as a means to rationalise my
own thoughts re: medical intepretation of the term.

The other (important) intepretation relates to the sale of 'diet' related
products and services.  This in-turn impacts billions through 'search'.

>
>
> > On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 at 11:17 Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Tim,
> >>
> >> No one is trying to change the definition that we currently have in
> >> Schema.org
> >>
> >> In the world there are generally 2 generally used definitions of Diet.
> >>
> >> 1. That typically spoken about by a Biologist. (biological needs of a
> >> lifeform)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2. That typically spoken about by a Nutritionist.  (Lifestyle or
> >> Restricted or Health goal oriented)
>
> Agreed.
>
> >
> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2138622
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Schema.org has # 2 (well, mostly aligned with # 2)
> >
> > The namespace is health-lifesci.schema.org
>
> Please do not read too much into that.  It is not formally a distinct
> namespace in the W3C RDF sense; schema.org's namespace is flat, the
> extension/subdomain extension structure is an organizational view into
> a (fairly :) unified whole. The URI for the term is
> http://schema.org/Diet
>
> As we say in that page,
>
> "The schema.org medical vocabulary was originally created in
> collaboration with WikiDoc and others. Recent improvements including
> the migration into the health-lifesci extension has been led by the
> Healthcare Schema (schemed) community group at W3C. The health-lifesci
> schema.org extension is available for other collaborative schema.org
> extensions in topics centred on healthcare, medicine and the
> lifesciences (e.g. see also Bioschemas, and the pending proposals for
> describing US healthcare insurance networks)."
>
> This makes clear that this section of schema.org is intended as a home
> for medical and healthcare terms but also those from the broader life
> sciences, which would make #1 a reasonable reading.
>
> >> Wikidata.org has # 1 (currently, but were the referenced Wikipedia
> article
> >> meaders back and forth between # 1 and # 2...but no matter, the Wikidata
> >> topic is firmly in the realm of # 1 with its current description)
> >>
> >> The two classes are not equivalent but where Dan and others are saying
> #2
> >> could be thought of as a subclass of #1.
> >
> >
> > IMHO the use of 'diet' in search has an array of semantics.  I responded
> due
> > to the implications the use of a term such as 'diet' may relate to
> medical
> > conditions (ie: in food-ingredients and menu related lists) so people can
> > buy a food that is compatible with those intending to consume it.
> >
> > Research shows; the term 'diet' is also used for selling pet-food,
> protein
> > shakes, books, diabetes information sessions, etc.  The current wikidata
> > term (which doesn't really fit) speaks more of (1) as well pointed out.
> > nutrician seems to be a better fit for the current usage of 'diet'
> however
> > the schema hierarchy of defining the health-usage of the term 'diet'
> under
> > 'lifestyleModification' and thereafter is defined as a subclass of
> > http://health-lifesci.schema.org/LifestyleModification that has a
> > description of "A process of care involving exercise, changes to diet,
> > fitness routines, and other lifestyle changes aimed at improving a health
> > condition." which as a class appears to relate to
> > http://health-lifesci.schema.org/MedicalEntity - which is a term
> 'loosely
> > coupled' with other Agents such as 'fitness instructor' of 'chef', who
> with
> > the best of intentions - may be an expert of an element.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm OK with that and now just need to get Wikidata 'external subclass'
> >> figured out.
> >> I've posited the question to them on their mailing list and awaiting a
> >> response.
> >>
> >
> > I think dan also noted not to worry to much about it, and i understand
> your
> > trying to map wikidata.  So, perhaps simply - duly noted for now?
>
> I think so.
>
Dan
>
>
I'm still struggling through the basics for civics related ontological
factors.  The interest in this facet related in-turn to what i identified
around 'disability' which is independently posted:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schemaorg/2016Sep/0044.html

the function of machine-readable text is distinct from the function of
wikipedia; therein, i imagine much work (across the board) needs to be done
(inclusive of other 'civics' related issues previously highlighted).
Herein; the clinical, medical or other related functional concepts relating
to the concept of 'diet' probably shifts context of the web-experience for
individuals? yet only part of the definition is defined in a human readable
(as apposed to the machine-readable) context?

So, whilst i'm still figuring out the basics; pondered the distinction.
Some people have a diet that is changed for medical reasons.  the
relational concepts of 'diet' as is defined for dog food - is distinct
again.  In-order for search to be relevent using these concepts; i wonder
how these sorts of distinctions are made.

understanding that better would surely help me with the work in other areas.


> > Diet has an array of very important medical uses that relate
> specifically to
> > search.  Diet can also be used when searching for dog-food.  Search
> > currently appears to benefit from the use of the term diet for dog-food,
> > protein powders, and books.
> >
> >>
> >> Thad
> >> +ThadGuidry
> >>
> > Tim.H. ;)
>

Tim.H.
Received on Sunday, 11 September 2016 12:01:48 UTC

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