Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation!
I guess I'm still too biased by RDF modeling tradition...
I'm willing to accept that schema:member could be used to relate two persons in one dataset, and to link a person to a role in another.
But it makes me shiver a bit when I see this sort of semantic difference in two closely related triples. I.e schema:member between a person and a role in one triple, and schema:member between a role and a person in the next one!

Antoine

On 3/12/15 10:17 PM, Young,Jeff (OR) wrote:
> Antoine,
>
> As I understand it, this should be understood as "A4 is a member of A1.... and oh, by the way, I snuck in this Role node so I can say something more about the 'member' relationship ".
>
> Here's the description of schema:Role:
>
> "Represents additional information about a relationship or property. For example a Role can be used to say that a 'member' role linking some SportsTeam to a player occurred during a particular time period. Or that a Person's 'actor' role in a Movie was for some particular characterName. Such properties can be attached to a Role entity, which is then associated with the main entities using ordinary properties like 'member' or 'actor'."
>
> It's like a get-out-of-triple-jail-free card without having to jail break RDF parsers.
>
> Jeff
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 5:09 PM
>> To: public-schemabibex@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)
>>
>> Hi Dan, everyone,
>>
>> I wonder how the comics ontology relates to some work on manga seem in
>> the past
>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/2467696.2467731
>> http://dcpapers.dublincore.org/pubs/article/download/979/952
>>
>> About role, I have a perhaps stupid question: does anyone remembers why
>> schema.org has a "double use" of the property that relates the role to the
>> two resources it relates?
>>
>> Reading Jeff's example:
>>
>> _:A1	schema:member [
>> 		a schema:Role;
>> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
>> 		schema:member _:A4;
>> 	];
>>
>> This could be understood as "the agent A4 is a member of a role that is a
>> member of a group."
>>
>> If the group had had a "guest" harpsichordist for one concert, then we would
>> have
>>
>> _:A1	schema:member [
>> 		a schema:Role;
>> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
>> 		schema:member _:A4;
>> 	];
>> _:A1	schema:guest [
>> 		a schema:Role;
>> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
>> 		schema:guest _:A5;
>> 	];
>>
>> Is there interest in having to adapt the pattern in two places, as opposed to
>> have a same property (say, "rolePlayer") for every link between a role to the
>> entity that plays it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>> On 3/12/15 8:51 PM, Wallis,Richard wrote:
>>> Yes Dan, I agree - I was over complicating things by inventing the need for a
>> Role subType she Role on its own would be sufficient.
>>>
>>> Good example Jeff.
>>>
>>> ~Richard
>>>
>>> On 12 Mar 2015, at 17:39, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org
>> <mailto:jyoung@oclc.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that coordination on roleNames (especially using URIs) would be a
>> great.
>>>> Here's a mockup I did recently to account for the instruments that
>> individual musicians played on a music album. It was while I was mocking this
>> up that I realized how many were covered by WikiData:
>>>>
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68401641/Devon/TextExtraction.ttl
>>>> Jeff
>>>> *From:*Dan Scott [mailto:denials@gmail.com] *Sent:*Thursday, March
>>>> 12, 2015 1:33 PM *To:*Wallis,Richard; Sean Petiya *Cc:*Young,Jeff
>>>> (OR); public-schemabibex@w3.org <mailto:public-schemabibex@w3.org>
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378) On Thu, 12 Mar
>>>> 2015 at 12:42 Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org
>> <mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      Hi Sean,
>>>>      My personal opinion is that the work you and the previously referenced
>> draft on the Wiki
>> <http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Periodicals_and_Comic
>> s_synthesis> are within the scope of this group to discuss.
>>>>      As Jeff indicated, there is some overlap and/or mismatch between your
>> discussions of Role and similar concepts from the Library of Congress Relator
>> Codes and WikiData.  How these terms are defined/referenced in the
>> vocabulary is then a question.  I am always sceptical of statements such as
>> "set that covers the major...", because it is very difficult to a)get agreement
>> on what is major and b) what do you do about defying the minor ones.
>>>>      Your use of the term name 'role' conflicts with the Role
>> <http://schema.org/Role> type inSchma.org <http://schma.org/>, which in
>> itself is not a problem (you could use creativeRole for example).  However in
>> covering off this need, I think it would be worth considering the creation of a
>> ContributionRole subtype of Role which would allow the qualification of the
>> contributor relationship between CreativeWork and Person or Organization.
>> Then using the roleName attribute the type of contribution could be
>> qualified either by a URL to the Library of Congress Relators, or WikiData, etc.
>> definitions, or, if not available, in plain text.
>>>>
>>>> Erm. I thought the agreed-upon pattern for using Role (first proposed by
>> danbri athttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
>> vocabs/2014Sep/0009.html) would be to apply the external vocabulary
>> property in combination with schema:contributor (e.g. lcrel:clr) and apply
>> schema:roleName for those consumers that might, for whatever reason,
>> want to limit themselves to justschema.org <http://schema.org/>. E.g.:
>>>> <dl vocab="http://schema.org/"
>> prefix="lcrel:http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/relators/">
>>>>    <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
>>>>      <dt><span property="roleName">Pencils</span>:</dt>
>>>>      <dd><span property="contributor">Ron Lim</span></dd>
>>>>    </span>
>>>>    <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
>>>>      <dt><meta property="roleName" content="colorist">Colors:</dt>
>>>>      <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:clr">Chris
>> Sotomayor</span></dd>
>>>>      </span>
>>>> </dl>
>>>> ... which generates something like:
>>>>      ns1:contributor [ a ns1:Role ;
>>>>              ns1:contributor "Ron Lim" ;
>>>>              ns1:roleName "Pencils" ],
>>>>          [ a ns1:Role ;
>>>>              lcrel:clr "Chris Sotomayor" ;
>>>>              ns1:contributor "Chris Sotomayor" ;
>>>>              ns1:roleName "colorist" ]; This was the direction I was
>>>> taking things with my preconference at SWIB, which even includes a
>>>> Comic example:
>>>>
>> https://coffeecode.net/swib14/preconference/rdfa_exercises/6_comic_bo
>>>> ok/ We could certainly update guidance and examples to use
>>>> contributor types from wikidata and other vocabularies, but I would
>>>> like to ensure we're starting from a common understanding. And having
>>>> put a fair amount of effort into the last iteration of Periodicals &
>>>> Comics, I have some interest in Comics going forward :)
>>>
>
>

Received on Thursday, 12 March 2015 21:26:07 UTC