RE: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)

It was weird to me at first too and I'm sure it will get abused on the open web. OTOH, it transforms some extremely thorny problems into a simple mechanical indirection.

I don't think in terms of "model" so much anymore. Schema.org feels more like a language now. Here's an example:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68401641/examples/daffodils_and_deprivation.ttl

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 5:26 PM
> To: public-schemabibex@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Thanks for the explanation!
> I guess I'm still too biased by RDF modeling tradition...
> I'm willing to accept that schema:member could be used to relate two
> persons in one dataset, and to link a person to a role in another.
> But it makes me shiver a bit when I see this sort of semantic difference in
> two closely related triples. I.e schema:member between a person and a role
> in one triple, and schema:member between a role and a person in the next
> one!
> 
> Antoine
> 
> On 3/12/15 10:17 PM, Young,Jeff (OR) wrote:
> > Antoine,
> >
> > As I understand it, this should be understood as "A4 is a member of A1....
> and oh, by the way, I snuck in this Role node so I can say something more
> about the 'member' relationship ".
> >
> > Here's the description of schema:Role:
> >
> > "Represents additional information about a relationship or property. For
> example a Role can be used to say that a 'member' role linking some
> SportsTeam to a player occurred during a particular time period. Or that a
> Person's 'actor' role in a Movie was for some particular characterName. Such
> properties can be attached to a Role entity, which is then associated with the
> main entities using ordinary properties like 'member' or 'actor'."
> >
> > It's like a get-out-of-triple-jail-free card without having to jail break RDF
> parsers.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl]
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 5:09 PM
> >> To: public-schemabibex@w3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)
> >>
> >> Hi Dan, everyone,
> >>
> >> I wonder how the comics ontology relates to some work on manga seem
> >> in the past
> >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/2467696.2467731
> >> http://dcpapers.dublincore.org/pubs/article/download/979/952
> >>
> >> About role, I have a perhaps stupid question: does anyone remembers
> >> why schema.org has a "double use" of the property that relates the
> >> role to the two resources it relates?
> >>
> >> Reading Jeff's example:
> >>
> >> _:A1	schema:member [
> >> 		a schema:Role;
> >> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
> >> 		schema:member _:A4;
> >> 	];
> >>
> >> This could be understood as "the agent A4 is a member of a role that
> >> is a member of a group."
> >>
> >> If the group had had a "guest" harpsichordist for one concert, then
> >> we would have
> >>
> >> _:A1	schema:member [
> >> 		a schema:Role;
> >> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
> >> 		schema:member _:A4;
> >> 	];
> >> _:A1	schema:guest [
> >> 		a schema:Role;
> >> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
> >> 		schema:guest _:A5;
> >> 	];
> >>
> >> Is there interest in having to adapt the pattern in two places, as
> >> opposed to have a same property (say, "rolePlayer") for every link
> >> between a role to the entity that plays it?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Antoine
> >>
> >> On 3/12/15 8:51 PM, Wallis,Richard wrote:
> >>> Yes Dan, I agree - I was over complicating things by inventing the
> >>> need for a
> >> Role subType she Role on its own would be sufficient.
> >>>
> >>> Good example Jeff.
> >>>
> >>> ~Richard
> >>>
> >>> On 12 Mar 2015, at 17:39, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org
> >> <mailto:jyoung@oclc.org>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I agree that coordination on roleNames (especially using URIs)
> >>>> would be a
> >> great.
> >>>> Here's a mockup I did recently to account for the instruments that
> >> individual musicians played on a music album. It was while I was
> >> mocking this up that I realized how many were covered by WikiData:
> >>>>
> >>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68401641/Devon/TextExtraction.ttl
> >>>> Jeff
> >>>> *From:*Dan Scott [mailto:denials@gmail.com] *Sent:*Thursday,
> March
> >>>> 12, 2015 1:33 PM *To:*Wallis,Richard; Sean Petiya *Cc:*Young,Jeff
> >>>> (OR); public-schemabibex@w3.org <mailto:public-
> schemabibex@w3.org>
> >>>> *Subject:*Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378) On Thu, 12
> >>>> Mar
> >>>> 2015 at 12:42 Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org
> >> <mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>      Hi Sean,
> >>>>      My personal opinion is that the work you and the previously
> >>>> referenced
> >> draft on the Wiki
> >>
> <http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Periodicals_and_Comic
> >> s_synthesis> are within the scope of this group to discuss.
> >>>>      As Jeff indicated, there is some overlap and/or mismatch
> >>>> between your
> >> discussions of Role and similar concepts from the Library of Congress
> >> Relator Codes and WikiData.  How these terms are defined/referenced
> >> in the vocabulary is then a question.  I am always sceptical of
> >> statements such as "set that covers the major...", because it is very
> >> difficult to a)get agreement on what is major and b) what do you do about
> defying the minor ones.
> >>>>      Your use of the term name 'role' conflicts with the Role
> >> <http://schema.org/Role> type inSchma.org <http://schma.org/>, which
> >> in itself is not a problem (you could use creativeRole for example).
> >> However in covering off this need, I think it would be worth
> >> considering the creation of a ContributionRole subtype of Role which
> >> would allow the qualification of the contributor relationship between
> CreativeWork and Person or Organization.
> >> Then using the roleName attribute the type of contribution could be
> >> qualified either by a URL to the Library of Congress Relators, or WikiData,
> etc.
> >> definitions, or, if not available, in plain text.
> >>>>
> >>>> Erm. I thought the agreed-upon pattern for using Role (first
> >>>> proposed by
> >> danbri athttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
> >> vocabs/2014Sep/0009.html) would be to apply the external vocabulary
> >> property in combination with schema:contributor (e.g. lcrel:clr) and
> >> apply schema:roleName for those consumers that might, for whatever
> >> reason, want to limit themselves to justschema.org
> <http://schema.org/>. E.g.:
> >>>> <dl vocab="http://schema.org/"
> >> prefix="lcrel:http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/relators/">
> >>>>    <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
> >>>>      <dt><span property="roleName">Pencils</span>:</dt>
> >>>>      <dd><span property="contributor">Ron Lim</span></dd>
> >>>>    </span>
> >>>>    <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
> >>>>      <dt><meta property="roleName" content="colorist">Colors:</dt>
> >>>>      <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:clr">Chris
> >> Sotomayor</span></dd>
> >>>>      </span>
> >>>> </dl>
> >>>> ... which generates something like:
> >>>>      ns1:contributor [ a ns1:Role ;
> >>>>              ns1:contributor "Ron Lim" ;
> >>>>              ns1:roleName "Pencils" ],
> >>>>          [ a ns1:Role ;
> >>>>              lcrel:clr "Chris Sotomayor" ;
> >>>>              ns1:contributor "Chris Sotomayor" ;
> >>>>              ns1:roleName "colorist" ]; This was the direction I
> >>>> was taking things with my preconference at SWIB, which even
> >>>> includes a Comic example:
> >>>>
> >>
> https://coffeecode.net/swib14/preconference/rdfa_exercises/6_comic_bo
> >>>> ok/ We could certainly update guidance and examples to use
> >>>> contributor types from wikidata and other vocabularies, but I would
> >>>> like to ensure we're starting from a common understanding. And
> >>>> having put a fair amount of effort into the last iteration of
> >>>> Periodicals & Comics, I have some interest in Comics going forward
> >>>> :)
> >>>
> >
> >

Received on Thursday, 12 March 2015 21:46:30 UTC