RE: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)

Antoine,

As I understand it, this should be understood as "A4 is a member of A1.... and oh, by the way, I snuck in this Role node so I can say something more about the 'member' relationship ".

Here's the description of schema:Role:

"Represents additional information about a relationship or property. For example a Role can be used to say that a 'member' role linking some SportsTeam to a player occurred during a particular time period. Or that a Person's 'actor' role in a Movie was for some particular characterName. Such properties can be attached to a Role entity, which is then associated with the main entities using ordinary properties like 'member' or 'actor'."

It's like a get-out-of-triple-jail-free card without having to jail break RDF parsers.

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 5:09 PM
> To: public-schemabibex@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)
> 
> Hi Dan, everyone,
> 
> I wonder how the comics ontology relates to some work on manga seem in
> the past
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/2467696.2467731
> http://dcpapers.dublincore.org/pubs/article/download/979/952
> 
> About role, I have a perhaps stupid question: does anyone remembers why
> schema.org has a "double use" of the property that relates the role to the
> two resources it relates?
> 
> Reading Jeff's example:
> 
> _:A1	schema:member [
> 		a schema:Role;
> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
> 		schema:member _:A4;
> 	];
> 
> This could be understood as "the agent A4 is a member of a role that is a
> member of a group."
> 
> If the group had had a "guest" harpsichordist for one concert, then we would
> have
> 
> _:A1	schema:member [
> 		a schema:Role;
> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
> 		schema:member _:A4;
> 	];
> _:A1	schema:guest [
> 		a schema:Role;
> 		schema:roleName entity:Q5371902; # harpsichordist
> 		schema:guest _:A5;
> 	];
> 
> Is there interest in having to adapt the pattern in two places, as opposed to
> have a same property (say, "rolePlayer") for every link between a role to the
> entity that plays it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Antoine
> 
> On 3/12/15 8:51 PM, Wallis,Richard wrote:
> > Yes Dan, I agree - I was over complicating things by inventing the need for a
> Role subType she Role on its own would be sufficient.
> >
> > Good example Jeff.
> >
> > ~Richard
> >
> > On 12 Mar 2015, at 17:39, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org
> <mailto:jyoung@oclc.org>> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree that coordination on roleNames (especially using URIs) would be a
> great.
> >> Here's a mockup I did recently to account for the instruments that
> individual musicians played on a music album. It was while I was mocking this
> up that I realized how many were covered by WikiData:
> >>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68401641/Devon/TextExtraction.ttl
> >> Jeff
> >> *From:*Dan Scott [mailto:denials@gmail.com] *Sent:*Thursday, March
> >> 12, 2015 1:33 PM *To:*Wallis,Richard; Sean Petiya *Cc:*Young,Jeff
> >> (OR); public-schemabibex@w3.org <mailto:public-schemabibex@w3.org>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378) On Thu, 12 Mar
> >> 2015 at 12:42 Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org
> <mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Hi Sean,
> >>     My personal opinion is that the work you and the previously referenced
> draft on the Wiki
> <http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Periodicals_and_Comic
> s_synthesis> are within the scope of this group to discuss.
> >>     As Jeff indicated, there is some overlap and/or mismatch between your
> discussions of Role and similar concepts from the Library of Congress Relator
> Codes and WikiData.  How these terms are defined/referenced in the
> vocabulary is then a question.  I am always sceptical of statements such as
> "set that covers the major...", because it is very difficult to a)get agreement
> on what is major and b) what do you do about defying the minor ones.
> >>     Your use of the term name 'role' conflicts with the Role
> <http://schema.org/Role> type inSchma.org <http://schma.org/>, which in
> itself is not a problem (you could use creativeRole for example).  However in
> covering off this need, I think it would be worth considering the creation of a
> ContributionRole subtype of Role which would allow the qualification of the
> contributor relationship between CreativeWork and Person or Organization.
> Then using the roleName attribute the type of contribution could be
> qualified either by a URL to the Library of Congress Relators, or WikiData, etc.
> definitions, or, if not available, in plain text.
> >>
> >> Erm. I thought the agreed-upon pattern for using Role (first proposed by
> danbri athttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
> vocabs/2014Sep/0009.html) would be to apply the external vocabulary
> property in combination with schema:contributor (e.g. lcrel:clr) and apply
> schema:roleName for those consumers that might, for whatever reason,
> want to limit themselves to justschema.org <http://schema.org/>. E.g.:
> >> <dl vocab="http://schema.org/"
> prefix="lcrel:http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/relators/">
> >>   <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
> >>     <dt><span property="roleName">Pencils</span>:</dt>
> >>     <dd><span property="contributor">Ron Lim</span></dd>
> >>   </span>
> >>   <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
> >>     <dt><meta property="roleName" content="colorist">Colors:</dt>
> >>     <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:clr">Chris
> Sotomayor</span></dd>
> >>     </span>
> >> </dl>
> >> ... which generates something like:
> >>     ns1:contributor [ a ns1:Role ;
> >>             ns1:contributor "Ron Lim" ;
> >>             ns1:roleName "Pencils" ],
> >>         [ a ns1:Role ;
> >>             lcrel:clr "Chris Sotomayor" ;
> >>             ns1:contributor "Chris Sotomayor" ;
> >>             ns1:roleName "colorist" ]; This was the direction I was
> >> taking things with my preconference at SWIB, which even includes a
> >> Comic example:
> >>
> https://coffeecode.net/swib14/preconference/rdfa_exercises/6_comic_bo
> >> ok/ We could certainly update guidance and examples to use
> >> contributor types from wikidata and other vocabularies, but I would
> >> like to ensure we're starting from a common understanding. And having
> >> put a fair amount of effort into the last iteration of Periodicals &
> >> Comics, I have some interest in Comics going forward :)
> >

Received on Thursday, 12 March 2015 21:18:27 UTC