Re: An initial proposal for bib.schema.org

Dear Richard, Owen, et al.,

I'd also like to know more about the proposed timeline for discussion here.
I'm particularly concerned about the "Archive Containers/Collection" set in
Richard's original message. If I remember correctly, the original schema
bib group didn't address archival metadata, and there weren't any
archivists engaged in the conversation. I think we need to think very
carefully about extending the bib extensions into another -- albeit related
-- domain without appropriate representation from that group. It was hard
enough reaching consensus on the bibliographic stuff the first time around.

I suspect this comment is also related to the discussion of Toys and Kits
going on in other threads, as those types are largely used in cataloging
for special collections & archives.

A better sense of timing would be useful, as I think I'd like to start
pointing some of my archives metadata colleagues to this thread.

Thanks,
-Corey

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 5:14 AM, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:

> Thanks Richard,
>
> While I understand that having something in bib.schema.org doesn’t
> preclude their use elsewhere, we clearly don’t want to do something that
> causes problems further down the line or leads libraries to describe
> materials in a way that is different to others using schema.org. If we
> had simply approached ‘comics’ as we describe them in libraries we would
> have ended up with something much poorer than what we’ve actually got
> through the work of Dan and others.
>
> I’m not that keen on an approach that simply takes what libraries
> currently do and converts it into schema.org - I still feel if this is
> ‘bib’ schema it should focus on that aspect. Otherwise we should be talking
> about ‘lib’ schema instead.
>
> Anyway, would it be possible for you to lay out a proposed timetable for
> discussion and agreement/publication of these elements and properties?
>
> I’m going to keep going on my concerns about Toy and Kit in a different
> thread…
>
> Owen
>
> Owen Stephens
> Owen Stephens Consulting
> Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> Email: owen@ostephens.com
> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>
> On 15 Apr 2015, at 17:04, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org> wrote:
>
>  Hi Owen,
>
>  You are right to identify the slightly rushed element of this proposal
> as we are hoping to take advantage of an imminent release.
>
>  To that end the set of obvious initial candidates for discussion - most
> of BiblioGaph.net <http://bibliogaph.net/> and the comics proposal - were
> slimed down by Dan Scott and me into a less controversial sub-set.  Neither
> of us are precious about any of these.
>
>  The General Bibliographic Types & Properties all came into this proposal
> from the BibloGraph.net <http://biblograph.net/> vocabulary, designed as
> an open extension to Schema.org <http://schema.org/>.  The need for the
> types and properties within it came from analysing the bibliographic
> descriptions within WorldCat.org <http://worldcat.org/> and therefore by
> inference information that librarians needed to capture for their
> organisations and collections.
>
>  Within these there are a few new CreativeWork subtypes.  Some are fairly
> obvious (Newspaper, Atlas, MusicScore, Thesis,  Chapter) some less obvious
> (Kit, Toy).  In support of Kit & Toy I would say they are both used in
> bibliographic description - for example in toy collections/libraries in the
> same way as kits [I’m sure there could be a better word] of materials are
> often catalogued and circulated by libraries.  You are right to suggest
> that they may well be applicable within other domains, but being in
> bib.schema.org does not preclude their use elsewhere or promoting to the
> core at a later date.
>
>  Meeting, Agent, & PublicationSeries, although not discussed in this
> group have well understood application in describing relationships and
> resources in the bibliographic domain.
>
>  The MapCategoryType:CartographicMap
> <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/CartographicMap> does not seek to define a
> Cartographic as such.  It just makes available the ability to differentiate
> one from Transit Maps and Seat Maps.
>
>
>  The archive containers types and properties are new, and address the
> description of how items in an archive are contained as against the
> semantic description of those items.  The Collection type although of
> relevance to archives is equally applicable to library and other
> collections.
>
>  What is missing, except for the comic related proposals, are examples to
> go with the proposals that we need to work on.
>
>   ~Richard
>
>  On 15 Apr 2015, at 16:20, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:
>
>  Richard,
>
>  I feel like breaking down this list further into types and properties
> would be useful for discussion?
> Also pointers to any existing work/discussions on each type/property? Or a
> summary for each thing. I know comics have been discussed extensively and
> don’t want to re-hash anything there. On the otherhand some of these are
> completely new and I think deserve a bit more consideration before we put
> them forward.
>
>  My overarching concern is that we have a list of ‘types’ that are based
> on how we currently break things down in libraries, rather than with
> specific use cases in mind. For example Kit might be better part of a
> learning materials extension, Toy as part of products, and it feels like
> ‘cartographic materials’ are probably an area all to themselves.
>
>  I don’t necessarily object to these being part of a bib extension
> (certainly ‘atlas’ fits clearly into scope), but some of this feels a bit
> rushed unless there is discussion I’ve missed?
>
>  Owen
>
>   Owen Stephens
> Owen Stephens Consulting
>  Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> Email: owen@ostephens.com
> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>
>  On 14 Apr 2015, at 22:26, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org> wrote:
>
>  Hi all,
>
>  A few weeks back we discussed how this group or some of its members
> could participate as a bibliographic domain group to propose and review a
> bibliographic extension to schema.org with the current working name of
> bib.schema.org.
>
>  Since then I have been liaising with Dan Brickley and others in the main
> Schema.org <http://schema.org/> group who have been working to establish
> the hosting software that enables the extension capability.  This work is
> now close to being ready for release.  Dan has indicated that this provides
> an excellent opportunity for a bibliographic extension to be one of, if not
> the first, enabled and released in this way.  In preparation for this, Dan
> Scott and I have put together a candidate set of types and properties that
> could constitute an initial bib extension release, which this email
> introduces.
>
>  There are many potential candidates for new/enhanced types and
> properties which the finessing and accepting of which would need to be the
> subject of some in depth discussion within this group.  To take advantage
> of the opportunity to release along with the capability release, however,
> we need to agree a starting subset fairly quickly.  To that end Dan and I
> have drawn up this initial (1.0) proposal consisting of what we believe to
> be things that are fairly noncontroversial.
>
>  I list the proposed types and properties below with links to their
> representation in a development version of the Schema.org
> <http://schema.org/> site.  They are in three independent groups of
> proposals, for general bibliographic markup; some helpful things for the
> physical structure of archives & basic collections; and for comics.
>
>  We can accept/reject either individual types and properties, or a whole
> group, because we need to explore things in more depth and defer things to
> a later release.  I would hope though that fairly quickly we could come to
> at least a subset of these as an initial release.
>
>  A reminder that Dan Brickley is still working on the software capable of
> handling extensions so please view the content more than how it currently
> displays.
>
>  General Bibliographic Types & Properties
>
>    - Agent <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Agent>
>    - Atlas <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Atlas>
>    - Chapter <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Chapter>
>    - Globe <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Globe>
>    - Kit <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Kit>
>    - Meeting <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Meeting>
>    - Newspaper <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Newspaper>
>    - MusicScore <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/MusicScore>
>    - PublicationSeries <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/PublicationSeries>
>    - Thesis <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Thesis>
>    - Toy <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Toy>
>    - BookFormatType:AudioBook <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/AudioBook>
>    - BookFormatType:LargePrintBook
>    <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/LargePrintBook>
>    - BookFormatType:PrintBook <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/PrintBook>
>    - MapCategoryType:CartographicMap
>    <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/CartographicMap>
>    - inSupportOf <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/inSupportOf>
>    - translationOfWork <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/translationOfWork>
>    - translator <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/translator>
>    - workTranslation <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/workTranslation>
>
>
>  Archive Containers/Collection
>
>    - BoxContainer <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/BoxContainer>
>    - Collection <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Collection>
>    - Container <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Container>
>    - FolderContainer <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/FolderContainer>
>    - Shelf <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Shelf>
>    - contains <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/contains>
>    - containedIn <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/containedIn>
>
>
>  Comics
>
>    - ComicIssue <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicIssue>
>    - ComicSeries <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicSeries>
>    - ComicStory <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicStory>
>    - CoverArt <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/CoverArt>
>    - ComicCoverArt <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicCoverArt>
>    - BookFormatType:GraphicNovel <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/GraphicNovel>
>    - artist <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/artist>
>    - colorist <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/colorist>
>    - inker <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/inker>
>    - letterer <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/letterer>
>    - penciler <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/penciler>
>    - publisherImprint <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/publisherImprint>
>    - variantCover <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/variantCover>
>
>
>  I look forward to comments.
>
>  ~Richard.
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Corey A Harper
Metadata Services Librarian
New York University Libraries
20 Cooper Square, 3rd Floor
New York, NY 10003-7112
212.998.2479
corey.harper@nyu.edu