Re: An initial proposal for bib.schema.org

Thanks Richard,

While I understand that having something in bib.schema.org doesn’t preclude their use elsewhere, we clearly don’t want to do something that causes problems further down the line or leads libraries to describe materials in a way that is different to others using schema.org. If we had simply approached ‘comics’ as we describe them in libraries we would have ended up with something much poorer than what we’ve actually got through the work of Dan and others.

I’m not that keen on an approach that simply takes what libraries currently do and converts it into schema.org - I still feel if this is ‘bib’ schema it should focus on that aspect. Otherwise we should be talking about ‘lib’ schema instead.

Anyway, would it be possible for you to lay out a proposed timetable for discussion and agreement/publication of these elements and properties?

I’m going to keep going on my concerns about Toy and Kit in a different thread…

Owen

Owen Stephens
Owen Stephens Consulting
Web: http://www.ostephens.com
Email: owen@ostephens.com
Telephone: 0121 288 6936

> On 15 Apr 2015, at 17:04, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Owen,
> 
> You are right to identify the slightly rushed element of this proposal as we are hoping to take advantage of an imminent release.  
> 
> To that end the set of obvious initial candidates for discussion - most of BiblioGaph.net <http://bibliogaph.net/> and the comics proposal - were slimed down by Dan Scott and me into a less controversial sub-set.  Neither of us are precious about any of these.  
> 
> The General Bibliographic Types & Properties all came into this proposal from the BibloGraph.net <http://biblograph.net/> vocabulary, designed as an open extension to Schema.org <http://schema.org/>.  The need for the types and properties within it came from analysing the bibliographic descriptions within WorldCat.org <http://worldcat.org/> and therefore by inference information that librarians needed to capture for their organisations and collections.
> 
> Within these there are a few new CreativeWork subtypes.  Some are fairly obvious (Newspaper, Atlas, MusicScore, Thesis,  Chapter) some less obvious (Kit, Toy).  In support of Kit & Toy I would say they are both used in bibliographic description - for example in toy collections/libraries in the same way as kits [I’m sure there could be a better word] of materials are often catalogued and circulated by libraries.  You are right to suggest that they may well be applicable within other domains, but being in bib.schema.org <http://bib.schema.org/> does not preclude their use elsewhere or promoting to the core at a later date.
> 
> Meeting, Agent, & PublicationSeries, although not discussed in this group have well understood application in describing relationships and resources in the bibliographic domain.
> 
> The MapCategoryType:CartographicMap <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/CartographicMap> does not seek to define a Cartographic as such.  It just makes available the ability to differentiate one from Transit Maps and Seat Maps.
> 
> 
> The archive containers types and properties are new, and address the description of how items in an archive are contained as against the semantic description of those items.  The Collection type although of relevance to archives is equally applicable to library and other collections.
> 
> What is missing, except for the comic related proposals, are examples to go with the proposals that we need to work on.
> 
> ~Richard
> 
> On 15 Apr 2015, at 16:20, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com <mailto:owen@ostephens.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Richard,
>> 
>> I feel like breaking down this list further into types and properties would be useful for discussion? 
>> Also pointers to any existing work/discussions on each type/property? Or a summary for each thing. I know comics have been discussed extensively and don’t want to re-hash anything there. On the otherhand some of these are completely new and I think deserve a bit more consideration before we put them forward.
>> 
>> My overarching concern is that we have a list of ‘types’ that are based on how we currently break things down in libraries, rather than with specific use cases in mind. For example Kit might be better part of a learning materials extension, Toy as part of products, and it feels like ‘cartographic materials’ are probably an area all to themselves.
>> 
>> I don’t necessarily object to these being part of a bib extension (certainly ‘atlas’ fits clearly into scope), but some of this feels a bit rushed unless there is discussion I’ve missed?
>> 
>> Owen 
>> 
>> Owen Stephens
>> Owen Stephens Consulting
>> Web: http://www.ostephens.com <http://www.ostephens.com/>
>> Email: owen@ostephens.com <mailto:owen@ostephens.com>
>> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>> 
>>> On 14 Apr 2015, at 22:26, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org <mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> A few weeks back we discussed how this group or some of its members could participate as a bibliographic domain group to propose and review a bibliographic extension to schema.org <http://schema.org/> with the current working name of bib.schema.org <http://bib.schema.org/>.
>>> 
>>> Since then I have been liaising with Dan Brickley and others in the main Schema.org <http://schema.org/> group who have been working to establish the hosting software that enables the extension capability.  This work is now close to being ready for release.  Dan has indicated that this provides an excellent opportunity for a bibliographic extension to be one of, if not the first, enabled and released in this way.  In preparation for this, Dan Scott and I have put together a candidate set of types and properties that could constitute an initial bib extension release, which this email introduces.
>>> 
>>> There are many potential candidates for new/enhanced types and properties which the finessing and accepting of which would need to be the subject of some in depth discussion within this group.  To take advantage of the opportunity to release along with the capability release, however, we need to agree a starting subset fairly quickly.  To that end Dan and I have drawn up this initial (1.0) proposal consisting of what we believe to be things that are fairly noncontroversial. 
>>> 
>>> I list the proposed types and properties below with links to their representation in a development version of the Schema.org <http://schema.org/> site.  They are in three independent groups of proposals, for general bibliographic markup; some helpful things for the physical structure of archives & basic collections; and for comics.  
>>> 
>>> We can accept/reject either individual types and properties, or a whole group, because we need to explore things in more depth and defer things to a later release.  I would hope though that fairly quickly we could come to at least a subset of these as an initial release.
>>> 
>>> A reminder that Dan Brickley is still working on the software capable of handling extensions so please view the content more than how it currently displays.
>>> 
>>> General Bibliographic Types & Properties
>>> Agent <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Agent>
>>> Atlas <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Atlas>
>>> Chapter <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Chapter>
>>> Globe <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Globe>
>>> Kit <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Kit>
>>> Meeting <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Meeting>
>>> Newspaper <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Newspaper>
>>> MusicScore <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/MusicScore>
>>> PublicationSeries <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/PublicationSeries>
>>> Thesis <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Thesis>
>>> Toy <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Toy>
>>> BookFormatType:AudioBook <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/AudioBook>
>>> BookFormatType:LargePrintBook <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/LargePrintBook>
>>> BookFormatType:PrintBook <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/PrintBook>
>>> MapCategoryType:CartographicMap <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/CartographicMap>
>>> inSupportOf <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/inSupportOf>
>>> translationOfWork <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/translationOfWork>
>>> translator <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/translator>
>>> workTranslation <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/workTranslation>
>>> 
>>> Archive Containers/Collection
>>> BoxContainer <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/BoxContainer>
>>> Collection <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Collection>
>>> Container <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Container>
>>> FolderContainer <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/FolderContainer>
>>> Shelf <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/Shelf>
>>> contains <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/contains>
>>> containedIn <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/containedIn>
>>> 
>>> Comics
>>> ComicIssue <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicIssue>
>>> ComicSeries <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicSeries>
>>> ComicStory <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicStory>
>>> CoverArt <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/CoverArt>
>>> ComicCoverArt <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/ComicCoverArt>
>>> BookFormatType:GraphicNovel <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/GraphicNovel>
>>> artist <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/artist>
>>> colorist <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/colorist>
>>> inker <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/inker>
>>> letterer <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/letterer> 
>>> penciler <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/penciler>
>>> publisherImprint <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/publisherImprint>
>>> variantCover <http://sdo-bib.appspot.com/variantCover>
>>> 
>>> I look forward to comments.
>>> 
>>> ~Richard.
>> 
>