RE: Raising the issue of collections, especially of learning resources, within schema.org

Jeff,

I can see your point if a track is a separate composition ... probably not a
large

issue if one individual tune sits in position 3 on one album and postion 7
on another

release (or playlist or CD or stream or ... ).

 

However, in the following case, one does care about the sequence of tracks,
or

at least one does if the presentation of all four "tracks" in sequence is
what the listener

expects.  Those early days of streamed music with alpha listings of the
tracks of this

genre of music recordings come to mind.

 

028 0 2b| CBS a| MY 36720.035 

100 1 0a| Beethoven, Ludwig van, d| 1770-1827. =| ^A238618

240 1 0a| Symphonies, n| no. 6, op. 68, r| F major =| ^A238618

245 0 0a| Symphony no. 6 in F major, op. 68 h| [sound recording] 

260         a| New York, N.Y. : b| CBS, c| c1981.

300         a| 1 sound disc : b| 33 1/3 rpm, stereo ; c| 12 in.


 

alpha sort of movements (aka tracks) for this compositon

Allegretto (5)

Allegro (3 or 4)

Allegro (4 or 3)

Allegro ma non troppo (1)

Andante molto mosso (2)

 

Hmmm, not sure "elite" is quite the way I'd label a preference for having

a musical compositon consisting multiple parts presented in an appropriate 

sequence, tho I admit to a certain bias in the case J

Jerry

 

From: Young,Jeff (OR) [mailto:jyoung@oclc.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 7:01 PM
To: public-schemabibex@w3.org
Subject: Re: Raising the issue of collections, especially of learning
resources, within schema.org

 

Limiting this to SchemaBibEx.

 

Martin's "OWL Annotation Property" solution assumes a data consumer that is
capable of filling in a missing context. The "sound recording" that *you*
are describing may be 3rd on a given "album's" "playlist" but "the exact
same" "sound recording" may be Nth on a different "album's" "playlist".
That's why Martin went to the trouble to qualify his answer the way he did.

 

The problem boils down to different perspectives on the term "the exact
same". As a data consumer, I may or may not care whether the sound recording
is 3rd or Nth on some album or other. Sometimes I want "it" regardless of
context. Other times I may want "it" in a very particular order. 

 

Search engines and elite others may have the resources to decipher OWL
Annotation Properties for context in an aggregate environment and perhaps
even sniff their digital representations to make sure. Less sophisticated
data consumers will struggle.

 

Jeff


Sent via a cracked screen :-(


On Sep 10, 2013, at 7:13 PM, "Jerry Persons" <jpersons@stanford.edu> wrote:

Steve and Richard,

 

in FWIW mode:

 

I'm working with sound recordings (sequence of album tracks) and found this 

email  [1] in the public-vocabs discussion from Martin Hepp (goodrelations).


Dunno what any parser/browser would do with such a value.

 

Jerry

 

  _____  

Hi Holger,

 

a good candidate would be

 

         <http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#displayPosition>
http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#displayPosition

 

"The position at which the option or element should be listed in a menu or
user dialog, lower numbers come first."

 

It's an OWL Annotation Property, so you can use it safely anywhere.
Currently, it is not available from the schema.org namespace, just from
<http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1> http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#, but
you can use it with its full URI in combination with any
<http://schema.org/Thing> http://schema.org/Thing.

 

 

Martin

 

  _____  

 

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Jul/0012.html

 

 

From: Steve Midgley [mailto:steve.midgley@mixrun.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 6:00 PM
To: Wallis,Richard
Cc: lrmi@googlegroups.com; public-schemabibex@w3.org
Subject: Re: Raising the issue of collections, especially of learning
resources, within schema.org

 

Given my relative lack of expertise on the format side, I'll re-iterate some
use-cases first and hopefully someone will have suggestions:

1.	Create a table of contents to a book, where each entry in the ToC is
itself either another OrderedCollection or a URL to something more tangible
(like a PDF or html page)
2.	Create a learning progression description (could be also a syllabus
or curriculum)

1.	Each link in the OrderedCollection needs to describe the link itself
in various ways

1.	Link metadata might be arbitrary but would probably include: link
type (relationship) and required attributes

In a naive implementation, I'd guess I'd want:

*	A schema structure for links themselves
*	Extend ItemLists to LinkLists (to let me list Links in arbitrary
order - in html probably ol/ul; in json probably arrays of hashes I guess)
*	Decorate the OrderedCollectionPage with LinkList objects

 

DataType(?!) > Link

[[all from CreativeWork?]]

relationship: text describing the link relationship

required: true if link is mandatory in context of completing a pathway in an
OrderedCollection

 

Thing > CreativeWork > ItemList > LinkList

[Extends ItemList to permit Link object for each item in list]

 

Thing > CreativeWork > WebPage > CollectionPage > OrderedCollectionPage

linksTo: LinkList

 

Is that crazy?

Steve

 

 

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>
wrote:

Copying Schemabibex list for information. 

 

Steve,

 

My reaction is that an OrderedCollection should be a sub-type of Collection.

 

The question then comes to how you represent the ordering.   RDF gives us
ref:first, rdf:rest, ref:nil, but I can't see how these would easily map
into the schema.org world.

 

We could have first & last as properties for OrderedCollection, the
challenge would be ordering the ones in-between.  

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

~Richard

 

On 9 Sep 2013, at 17:22, Steve Midgley <steve.midgley@mixrun.com> wrote:






Great topic.  

 

If we take on collections, I feel like I'd want them to let me express
"ordered relations" similar to what Jason was talking about with the JSON-LD
question recently. 

 

For example, not only do I want a simple collection of LRMI resources, but
I'd like to be able to express the collection in some type of order. So I
can have all the units of instruction in a specified order (each unit might
be an LRMI resource).. 

 

But it opens up a rabbit hole of complexity (does it support multiple
branches of collections? what about named branches - one for "advanced" one
for "more explanation"? Does it support nested collections, so "Course" has
a bunch of units, each unit is a collection of resources, etc?)

 

Steve

 

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk> wrote:


Hello Charles, hello all,
I mostly agree with subject line: we should be raising the issue of
collections, it is not something special to learning resources, but perhaps
we have special cases relevant to education that should be raised.

There was a proposal from schema bibliography group
http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/ for collections
http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Collection discussed on the public schemas
list over the summer -- the latter part of the discussion is toward the end
of this page
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Jul/thread.html
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Jul/thread..html> 

cc-ing Richard Wallis who may know where that proposal stands?

Furthermore....
I think there is a similar issue around events that comes up when we discuss
courses. A lecture course is a series of educational events and it would be
nice to be able to say so, but (I think) schema.org <http://schema.org/>
only knows about TV series. Put the two together and a "course" in a more
general educational sense is a series or structured collection of
educational events and/or creative works. If an educational course is a type
of collection then collection has a wider domain than creative works.

Phil 



On 06/09/2013 05:08, Charles Myers wrote:

The Accessibility metadata thread on the W3C public vocabs list has heated
up lately.  You can see this at
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Sep/>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Sep/ although my
responses are currently blocked at the W3C, as I just started on the lists.
You can also see the thread on the accessibility metadata google group at
<http://www.a11ymetadata.org/discuss/> http://www.a11ymetadata.org/discuss/ 

 

While I was writing one of my emails on a hot thread today, I was reminded
of a longstanding schema.org <http://schema.org/>  issue that I wanted to
bring up to the LRMI group. Every LRMI workshop I've been to has a box of
books as a package. See http://www.mcgraw-hill.co.uk/sra/rl_index.html for a
good example. But the lament has always been that there is no such mechanism
in schema.org <http://schema.org/>  for having a collection.

 

Well, that's wrong.  There is one.  It's http://schema.org/CollectionPage ,
but is expected to be a collection of web pages and exclsuive to that.  In
fact, the way that it works is that WebPage has a property isPartOf, which
then points to the collection page.

 

I believe that LRMI should consider bringing the concept of the collection
and abstracting this to be a collection of any creative works, whether book,
web page, app or video, to schema.org <http://schema.org/> .  It's not a
specific LRMI issue, but it comes up commonly in LRMI content.  

 

Also, do take a look in at the debate going on the public vocabs list. This
is the first significant dialog we've had with the entire schema.org
<http://schema.org/>  group, and your insights can help us get the best
quality specification adopted, and then work on getting it applied to
learning resources.

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