Re: Raising the issue of collections, especially of learning resources, within schema.org

Limiting this to SchemaBibEx.

Martin's "OWL Annotation Property" solution assumes a data consumer that is capable of filling in a missing context. The "sound recording" that *you* are describing may be 3rd on a given "album's" "playlist" but "the exact same" "sound recording" may be Nth on a different "album's" "playlist". That's why Martin went to the trouble to qualify his answer the way he did.

The problem boils down to different perspectives on the term "the exact same". As a data consumer, I may or may not care whether the sound recording is 3rd or Nth on some album or other. Sometimes I want "it" regardless of context. Other times I may want "it" in a very particular order.

Search engines and elite others may have the resources to decipher OWL Annotation Properties for context in an aggregate environment and perhaps even sniff their digital representations to make sure. Less sophisticated data consumers will struggle.

Jeff

Sent via a cracked screen :-(

On Sep 10, 2013, at 7:13 PM, "Jerry Persons" <jpersons@stanford.edu<mailto:jpersons@stanford.edu>> wrote:

Steve and Richard,

in FWIW mode:

I’m working with sound recordings (sequence of album tracks) and found this
email  [1] in the public-vocabs discussion from Martin Hepp (goodrelations).
Dunno what any parser/browser would do with such a value.

Jerry

________________________________
Hi Holger,

a good candidate would be

        http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#displayPosition

"The position at which the option or element should be listed in a menu or user dialog, lower numbers come first."

It's an OWL Annotation Property, so you can use it safely anywhere. Currently, it is not available from the schema.org<http://schema.org> namespace, just from http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#, but you can use it with its full URI in combination with any http://schema.org/Thing.


Martin

________________________________

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Jul/0012.html


From: Steve Midgley [mailto:steve.midgley@mixrun.com]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 6:00 PM
To: Wallis,Richard
Cc: lrmi@googlegroups.com<mailto:lrmi@googlegroups.com>; public-schemabibex@w3.org<mailto:public-schemabibex@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Raising the issue of collections, especially of learning resources, within schema.org<http://schema.org>

Given my relative lack of expertise on the format side, I'll re-iterate some use-cases first and hopefully someone will have suggestions:

  1.  Create a table of contents to a book, where each entry in the ToC is itself either another OrderedCollection or a URL to something more tangible (like a PDF or html page)
  2.  Create a learning progression description (could be also a syllabus or curriculum)

     *   Each link in the OrderedCollection needs to describe the link itself in various ways

        *   Link metadata might be arbitrary but would probably include: link type (relationship) and required attributes
In a naive implementation, I'd guess I'd want:

  *   A schema structure for links themselves
  *   Extend ItemLists to LinkLists (to let me list Links in arbitrary order - in html probably ol/ul; in json probably arrays of hashes I guess)
  *   Decorate the OrderedCollectionPage with LinkList objects

DataType(?!) > Link
[[all from CreativeWork?]]
relationship: text describing the link relationship
required: true if link is mandatory in context of completing a pathway in an OrderedCollection

Thing > CreativeWork > ItemList > LinkList
[Extends ItemList to permit Link object for each item in list]

Thing > CreativeWork > WebPage > CollectionPage > OrderedCollectionPage
linksTo: LinkList

Is that crazy?
Steve


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org<mailto:Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>> wrote:
Copying Schemabibex list for information.

Steve,

My reaction is that an OrderedCollection should be a sub-type of Collection.

The question then comes to how you represent the ordering.   RDF gives us ref:first, rdf:rest, ref:nil, but I can't see how these would easily map into the schema.org<http://schema.org> world.

We could have first & last as properties for OrderedCollection, the challenge would be ordering the ones in-between.

Any suggestions?


~Richard

On 9 Sep 2013, at 17:22, Steve Midgley <steve.midgley@mixrun.com<mailto:steve.midgley@mixrun.com>> wrote:


Great topic.

If we take on collections, I feel like I'd want them to let me express "ordered relations" similar to what Jason was talking about with the JSON-LD question recently.

For example, not only do I want a simple collection of LRMI resources, but I'd like to be able to express the collection in some type of order. So I can have all the units of instruction in a specified order (each unit might be an LRMI resource)..

But it opens up a rabbit hole of complexity (does it support multiple branches of collections? what about named branches - one for "advanced" one for "more explanation"? Does it support nested collections, so "Course" has a bunch of units, each unit is a collection of resources, etc?)

Steve

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk<mailto:phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello Charles, hello all,
I mostly agree with subject line: we should be raising the issue of collections, it is not something special to learning resources, but perhaps we have special cases relevant to education that should be raised.

There was a proposal from schema bibliography group http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/ for collections http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Collection discussed on the public schemas list over the summer -- the latter part of the discussion is toward the end of this page http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Jul/thread.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Jul/thread..html>

cc-ing Richard Wallis who may know where that proposal stands?

Furthermore....
I think there is a similar issue around events that comes up when we discuss courses. A lecture course is a series of educational events and it would be nice to be able to say so, but (I think) schema.org<http://schema.org/> only knows about TV series. Put the two together and a "course" in a more general educational sense is a series or structured collection of educational events and/or creative works. If an educational course is a type of collection then collection has a wider domain than creative works.

Phil


On 06/09/2013 05:08, Charles Myers wrote:
The Accessibility metadata thread on the W3C public vocabs list has heated up lately.  You can see this at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Sep/ although my responses are currently blocked at the W3C, as I just started on the lists. You can also see the thread on the accessibility metadata google group at http://www.a11ymetadata.org/discuss/

While I was writing one of my emails on a hot thread today, I was reminded of a longstanding schema.org<http://schema.org/> issue that I wanted to bring up to the LRMI group. Every LRMI workshop I've been to has a box of books as a package. See http://www.mcgraw-hill.co.uk/sra/rl_index.html for a good example. But the lament has always been that there is no such mechanism in schema.org<http://schema.org/> for having a collection.

Well, that's wrong.  There is one.  It's http://schema.org/CollectionPage , but is expected to be a collection of web pages and exclsuive to that.  In fact, the way that it works is that WebPage has a property isPartOf, which then points to the collection page.

I believe that LRMI should consider bringing the concept of the collection and abstracting this to be a collection of any creative works, whether book, web page, app or video, to schema.org<http://schema.org/>.  It's not a specific LRMI issue, but it comes up commonly in LRMI content.

Also, do take a look in at the debate going on the public vocabs list. This is the first significant dialog we've had with the entire schema.org<http://schema.org/> group, and your insights can help us get the best quality specification adopted, and then work on getting it applied to learning resources.
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