Re: alternate identifier draf

Karen,

thank you. And indeed, it seems that my assumption was incorrect as you rightfully noted, so the trick of reducing repeating things is not really useful... Sorry about the noise.

But at least I learned something! :-)

Thanks

Ivan
 
On Jan 27, 2013, at 17:27 , Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:

> Ivan, I can answer a few questions here, but I think before we go further I want to be sure that you've seen
> 
> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Identifier
> 
> which has two other identifier proposals (and identifier-2 should probably be combined with those to avoid this split in the discussion).
> 
> I get the impression that you are envisioning a page in which the same identifier repeats throughout. Although that *might* happen on some particular page, that isn't the use case here. Kevin provided a partial list of library data identifiers, listed on this page:
> 
> http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/identifiers.html
> 
> It is deceptively short because some of them (e.g. "Locally defined identifier") really have no limits. But any page can have any of those, and some records will have more than one.
> 
> The way the identifiers are handled in our existing data, either the tag or other information in the field "names" the identifier. Here's the area of the library record documentation that covers many (but not all) identifiers:
> 
> http://loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd01x09x.html
> 
> So the music publisher number (field 028) which I was using in my example might look like this:
> 
> 028 	22 $a B. & H. 8797 $b Breitkopf & Hartel
> 
> You know it is a music publisher number because that's the meaning of "028". It has two parts:
> - the number "B. & H. 8797"
> - the publisher "Breitkopf & Hartel"
> 
> But there are many different patterns. Here's an example of the US government printing office's identifier for a document:
> 
> 074 	##$a 277-A-2 (MF)
> 
> 074 means: "GPO item number" (which happens to be what it is called)
> "277-A-2 (MF)" is the identifier.
> 
> Obviously, there is no way to know that the string "277-A-2 (MF)" is a GPO item number without further information. And there also is not a way to anticipate every possible type of identifier that can be found in bibliographic data.
> 
> And that, in a nutshell, is the problem we need to solve. And I think we agree that we want to go with the simplest solution that is effective.
> 
> kc
> 
> On 1/27/13 3:32 AM, Ivan Herman wrote:
>> 
>> I was looking at the
>> 
>> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Identifier-2
>> 
>> again and I am a little bit worried about the complexity that the user may face. At this moment, the RDFa encoding says:
>> 
>> <div typeof="Book">
>>   ...
>>   <span property="publisher">Hal Leonard</span>
>>   <span property="identifier" typeof="Identifier">
>>       (<span property="name">HL.114335</span>)
>>       <span property="issuedBy">Hal Leonard</span>
>>   </span>
>> </div>
>> 
>> (I noticed that the wiki does not have the 'publisher' property any more. Any reason for this? That is why I added here)
>> 
>> At the moment, the Identifier type contains only two properties: 'name' and 'issuedBy'. But there may be more in future (I am not a librarian, so I cannot give an example, but I could imagine additional metadata on the type of identifiers used in a particular file). If that was the case, it would mean to repeat quite a lot of things of the kind:
>> 
>> <div typeof="Book">
>>   ....
>>   <span property="identifier" typeof="Identifier">
>>       (<span property="name">HL.114335</span>)
>>       <span property="issuedBy">Hal Leonard</span>
>>       <span property="inStandard">ISBN</span>
>>       <span property="somethingElseOnHalIdentification">something</span>
>>   </span>
>> </div>
>> 
>> This may become a pain if the same page contains lots of library items following the same patterns.
>> 
>> Fortunately, both microdata and the new (and coming) RDFa+HTML5 include a possibility to reduce these repetitive structures. In microdata this is called @itemref; in RDFa+HTML5 it will be called property copying[1]. Using the RDFa syntax this is what one could do:
>> 
>> <div resource="#IDcharacteristics" typeof="rdfa:Pattern">
>>    <span property="issuedBy">Hal Leonard</span>
>>    <span property="inStandard">ISBN</span>
>>    <span property="somethingElseOnHalIdentification">something</span>
>>    ...
>> </div>
>> ...
>> <div typeof="Book">
>>   ....
>>   <span property="identifier" typeof="Identifier">
>>       (<span property="name">HL.114335</span>)
>>       <link property="rdfa:copy" href="#IDcharacteristics"/>
>>   </span>
>> </div>
>> <div typeof="Book">
>>   .... Data for another book
>>   <span property="identifier" typeof="Identifier">
>>       (<span property="name">HL.XYZ</span>)
>>       <link property="rdfa:copy" href="#IDcharacteristics"/>
>>   </span>
>> </div>
>> 
>> etc.
>> 
>> I did not want to add this to the Wiki, because I am not sure it is of interest (right now the Identifier structure has only two properties, ie, there would be no gain). But it may be of interest for other cases, too.
>> 
>> If there is an interest I am happy to convert this into microdata using @itemref, too.
>> 
>> I hope this helps...
>> 
>> Ivan
>> 
>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-in-html/Overview-src.html#property-copying
>> 
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +31-641044153
>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Karen Coyle
> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
> ph: 1-510-540-7596
> m: 1-510-435-8234
> skype: kcoylenet
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf