Re: alternate identifier draf

Massively agreed. 

On 1/21/13 4:19 PM, "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org> wrote:

>I agree that the pattern already exists and should be generalized instead
>of reinvented. The essential pattern is ultimately SKOS. Schema.org is
>making a mess by not realizing it.
>
>"String" identifiers are buggy whips.
>
>Jeff
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Adrian Pohl [mailto:pohl@hbz-nrw.de]
>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 4:59 AM
>> To: public-schemabibex@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Re: alternate identifier draf
>> 
>> Coming back to discussing the proposal itself: First, I wonder, why one
>> needs a new property called schema:issuedBy. Why not use
>> schema:publisher?
>> 
>> This would mean only adding three new properties and one new class to
>> schema.org:
>> 
>> - schema:Identifier as the class of all identifiers
>> - schema:identifier as the property which links something to an
>> identifier
>> - schema:inStandard to indicate where the identifier comes from.
>> 
>> But why add anything new at all?
>> 
>> As I said before, this design is very close to the practice of
>> expressing a medical code for a disease or drug with schema.org. [1]
>> Instead of schema:identifier they use schema:code and instead of
>> schema:inStandard schema:codingSystem. I encourage re-using these
>> properties or developing a general approach for both use cases instead
>> of coming up with a new but very similar proposal.
>> 
>> One might argue that a controlled vocabulary like MeSH is quite
>> different from a set of identifiers issued and that these should be
>> made clear in schema.org. I'd say for the high-level markup schema.org
>> provides, these can be treated as equivalent as some body issues
>> identifiers for some things - may these things be publications or
>> drugs, diseases etc. What type of thing the identifier belongs to (e.g.
>> a schema:Drug or a schema:Book) is clear from the context, anyway.
>> 
>> - Adrian
>> 
>> [1]
>> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Identifier#Adopting_approa
>> ch_from_medical.2Fhealth_extension
>> 
>> >>> On 20.1.2013 at 22:52, Niklas Lindström<lindstream@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Nice! I just fixed some minor HTML syntax issues, and also changed
>> the
>> > full URL in the first @typeof to just the term "Book" (which, like
>> the
>> > second @typeof="Identifier", is bound to the given
>> > @vocab="http://schema.org/").
>> >
>> > (Also verified the output with the latest RDFLib.)
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Niklas
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Adrian Pohl <pohl@hbz-nrw.de>
>> wrote:
>> >> I started to work on your Notation3 example before having read this
>> thread
>> > to the end. While being at it I put Ivan's example into the wiki. [1]
>> But I
>> > left out the schema:publisher truple as this wasn't part of the
>> original
>> > example and doesn't make sense.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Adrian
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Identifier-2
>> >>
>> >>>>> Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> 20.01.13 16.40 Uhr >>>
>> >> No surprise that my examples suck :-) Should I substitute these for
>> >> mine? That's fine with me.
>> >>
>> >> kc
>> >>
>> >> On 1/19/13 11:19 PM, Ivan Herman wrote:
>> >>> Karen,
>> >>>
>> >>> the example is not RDFa but microdata... Which is per se o.k., but
>> the
>> > microdata->RDF conversion will not create a blank node when it sees a
>> 
>> > @itemprop="identifier/name" construct. Nor will RDFa, for that
>> matter. The
>> > result with RDFa will be something like (I just mechanically created
>> an RDFa
>> > file and ran it through my converter):
>> >>>
>> >>> @prefix ns1: <http://schema.org/identifier/> .
>> >>> @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
>> >>>
>> >>> [] a schema:Book;
>> >>>      schema:author "Claude-Michel Schonberg, Alain Boublil, and
>> Herbert
>> > Kretzmer.";
>> >>>      schema:bookFormat schema:Paperback;
>> >>>      schema:by "Hal Leonard ";
>> >>>      schema:description "For Piano/Vocal. Vocal Selections. ";
>> >>>      ns1:issued "Hal Leonard ";
>> >>>      ns1:name "HL.114335";
>> >>>      schema:name "Les Miserables. (Selections from the Movie).";
>> >>>      schema:numberOfPages " 88 pages.";
>> >>>      schema:publisher " Published by Hal Leonard  " .
>> >>>
>> >>> which is not what you would expect:-( To do it right in HTML+RDFa
>> (but, I
>> > would think, in microdata as well, it is just that I am more 'fluent'
>> in
>> > RDFa) one has to something like
>> >>>
>> >>> <html><body>
>> >>> <div vocab="http://schema.org/" typeof="http://schema.org/Book">
>> >>>     <span property="name">Les Miserables. (Selections from the
>> Movie).</span>
>> >>>           by <span property="author" >Claude-Michel Schonberg,
>> Alain Boublil,
>> > and Herbert   Kretzmer.</span>
>> >>>      <span property="description">For Piano/Vocal. Vocal
>> Selections. </span>
>> >>>      <l!nk property="bookFormat"
>> > href="http://schema.org/Paperback">Softcover</a>.
>> >>>      <span property="numberOfPages"> 88 pages.</span>
>> >>>      <span property="publisher"><span property="identifier"
>> > typeof="Identifier"><span property="issuedBy">Hal Leonard</span>,
>> (<span
>> > property="name">HL.114335</span>)</span></span>
>> >>> </body></html>
>> >>>
>> >>> yielding
>> >>>
>> >>> [] a schema:Book;
>> >>>      schema:author "Claude-Michel Schonberg, Alain Boublil, and
>> Herbert
>> > Kretzmer.";
>> >>>      schema:bookFormat schema:Paperback;
>> >>>      schema:description "For Piano/Vocal. Vocal Selections. ";
>> >>>      schema:identifier [ a schema:Identifier;
>> >>>              schema:issuedBy "Hal Leonard";
>> >>>              schema:name "HL.114335" ];
>> >>>      schema:name "Les Miserables. (Selections from the Movie).";
>> >>>      schema:numberOfPages " 88 pages.";
>> >>>      schema:publisher "Hal Leonard, (HL.114335)" .
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Which is not exactly the same, b.t.w., because the publisher field
>> will also
>> > include the identifier stuff...
>> >>>
>> >>> Sorry...:-)
>> >>>
>> >>> Ivan
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 24:44 , Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I have added a second identifier proposal [1], much simpler than
>> the first
>> > (and possibly too simple -- it is a first draft).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> kc
>> >>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Identifier-2
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Karen Coyle
>> >>>> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
>> >>>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>> >>>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>> >>>> skype: kcoylenet
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ----
>> >>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>> >>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> >>> mobile: +31-641044153
>> >>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Karen Coyle
>> >> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
>> >> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>> >> m: 1-510-435-8234
>> >> skype: kcoylenet
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> 
>> 
>

Received on Monday, 21 January 2013 15:31:07 UTC