Re: schema-course-extend: credential or award offered through course.

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:

> On 19 August 2016 at 11:14, Stuart Sutton <sasutton@dublincore.net> wrote:
> > +1 on the range change.
> >
> > On the matter of credential/credential subclasses, the CTI is very close
> to
> > finalizing it's set of credential subclasses.
>
> How can we best follow that work? Is
> https://www.credentialtransparencyinitiative.org/Credential-
> Registry/Descriptors.aspx
> the page to watch, or did any mailing lists get opened for public
> participation?


Dan, that is not the best page to follow the technical development. I would
recommend using two viewers to the tables defining properties and classes
under development for the Credential Transparency Description Language
(CTDL). Both viewers contain the same information but organized
differently: (1) the "Domains Viewer" [1] organizes properties by
domain(Includes) classes in alpha order; and (2) the "Properties Viewer" is
a straight alpha listing first of properties, then classes, and then
enumeration (concept scheme) classes [2]. Additional documentation is in
the pipeline.

Important note: The first goal of the RDF modeling of the CTDL is to
provide for rich description of a subset of the credential ecosystem to
enable the Credential Registry under Lumina Foundation-funded development *and
also the open community of developers*. Second, CTI has intensions to map a
reasonable subset of the richer vocabulary to schema.org to support
web-based discovery. The RDF encoding of the definition table content in
these viewers will be in github soon and subject to open review and update
through github mechanisms.

Dan, the CTI project is quite large and engages participants through
various committees of interest from across the ecosystem. There has also
been significant outreach to related initiatives (e.g., the Open Badge
community and the W3C Verifiable Claims Task Force). There is a 47 member
Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) that has a member-only Google Group that
is publicly viewable; with an open invitation for anyone interested in
contributing to ask to join [3]. To my knowledge, no one wanting in has
been refused. The CTI project leads actually take the word "transparency"
in the initiatives name quite seriously.

[1] http://www.credreg.net/page/domainsviewer
[2] http://www.credreg.net/page/propertiesviewer
[3] https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/cti-t
echnical-committee


> Looks like a lot of good work happening there, but
> https://www.credentialtransparencyinitiative.org/ talking so much
> about American / US issues makes me wonder how internationalized the
> results will be. Is it also looking at that side of things, e.g.
> dealing with translation of achievements between countries for
> immigration purposes?
>

Dan, the TAC has some international representation (e.g., Phil Barker is a
member). But, as you are aware, it's rough to be as international as one
might hope given language limitations, social perceptions etc. *However,
there is no intention to be U.S. centric*. We assume that the CTDL will
evolve and one direction of that evolution will be through a push toward
greater internationalization. For example, we've defined the
ctdl:Credential class very broadly at [4] and then constrained the CTI
context through subclasses. We are relatively certain that our subclasses
(see below and in viewers) for the CTI education/workforce context will
further develop as international communities engage the CTDL and on the
conversation around it.



[4] http://www.credreg.net/page/propertiesviewer#Credential

Dan, we've been a bit stalled (along with many others) in rolling out these
key credential subclasses because we want to use PURLs and that service has
been temporarily inaccessible to purl administarors. I have been *unequivocally
assured* that the solution to this problem is *very near*. As soon we can
coin URI, we'll be moving quickly.


> >    That could well provide more
> > specific ranges; BUT, that said, schema.org should nevertheless push
> ahead
> > in the next build with range as proposed.
>
> +1 - looking forward to expanding on this area ASAP
>




>
> Dan
>
> > Stuart
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> (Doing things slightly out of order here)
> >>
> >> While noting Wes's comments about the range / expected type for
> >> educationalCredentialAwarded and modelling of Credential, on the basis
> of
> >> all the other comments in the last day or so and from last time we went
> over
> >> this issue, I intend to progress as proposed below (with one minor
> change),
> >> as that represents the furthest on which there is a degree consensus.
> >>
> >> The minor change is to use Url rather than Thing as an alternative to
> >> plain text, as Dan suggested.
> >>
> >> Hence including http://pending.webschemas.org/
> educationalCredentialAwarded
> >> in the proposal of what can be proposed for inclusion in the next draft
> of
> >> schema.org
> >>
> >> Here's hoping the wider credentialling community can get us further.
> >>
> >> Regards, Phil
> >>
> >> On 18/08/2016 14:18, Phil Barker wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello all, one last call for feedback on this (sorry I left it hanging
> >>> earlier in the summer, if you really have the time you can review the
> >>> discussion at
> >>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schema-course-ex
> tend/2016Jun/0019.html
> >>> )
> >>>
> >>> In short I propose:
> >>>
> >>> 1. that we provide a property of course which can be used to point to
> an
> >>> educational credential that may be available to those who complete a
> course.
> >>>
> >>> 2. that the expected type for this property be Text or Thing until such
> >>> time as a specific model for educational credentials be created
> >>>
> >>> 3.  that we do not attempt to model educational credentials as part of
> >>> this work.
> >>>
> >>> It is on point 3 that I would most welcome feedback.
> >>>
> >>> See
> >>> http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/educationalCr
> edentialAwarded
> >>> for details
> >>>
> >>> Brief Rational: the ability to provide a name and a URI for and
> >>> educational credential which may be obtained by successful completion
> of the
> >>> course is enough fulfil the use case requirement of being able to find
> >>> courses that offer some specific requirement; modelling educational
> >>> credentials would divert us from completing what is necessary to
> fulfil the
> >>> other use cases; and, educational credentials touch on many
> communities that
> >>> are not well represented in this group.
> >>>
> >>> Comments / feedback / dissent?
> >>>
> >>> Phil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 22/06/2016 11:20, Phil Barker wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have drafted a description and a couple of examples based on the
> >>>> proposal below.
> >>>>
> >>>> See wiki
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.w3.org/community/schema-course-extend/wiki/Ident
> ifying_the_qualification_offered
> >>>>
> >>>> and test course.schema site
> >>>>   http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/Course
> >>>>
> >>>> http://course.schema-course-extend.appspot.com/educationalCr
> edentialAwarded
> >>>>
> >>>> Any further comments/amendments?
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>>
> >>>> On 20/06/16 14:05, Phil Barker wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK. As property name I am going to suggest
> educationalCredentialAwarded
> >>>>> because we might in the future want EducationalCredential as a class
> name.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, my proposal is that in order to meet the use case that people can
> >>>>> search for courses that offers a qualification the searcher would
> like to
> >>>>> acquire we create a new property
> >>>>>
> >>>>> educationalCredentialAwarded domain Course, range Text or Thing.
> >>>>> Definition: a description of the qualification, award, certificate,
> >>>>> diploma or other educational credential awarded as a consequence of
> >>>>> successful completion of this course.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When the educational credentials/verifiable claims community have
> >>>>> sorted out how they want to describe their domain in schema.org
> then I hope
> >>>>> we will have some more specific schema type(s) that we can point to,
> but for
> >>>>> now this seems to me to be good enough to solve the use case.
> Solving the
> >>>>> bigger issue seems beyond the scope of this community group.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phil
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phil Barker           @philbarker
> >> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> >> Heriot-Watt University
> >>
> >> Workflow: http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/workflow/
> >>
> >>
> >
>