Re: A Quick Note on WebID history - Re: All the Agents Challenge (ATAC) at ISWC 2021

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 03:57, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
wrote:

> On 7/25/21 4:48 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, but parties on both sides are at fault re trying to impose a default
>> document content-type for serialization and persistence of credentials.
>>
>
> The default document type of the web is html
>
>
> Yes it is, which is why "RDF deployed via HTML" is a growing deployment
> pattern [1]
>
>
>
>
>> I continue to encourage the pursuit of verifiable identity solutions that
>> aren't distracted by content-type conflicts.
>>
>> The ultimate beauty of RDF lies in its abstract nature i.e., it is
>> fundamentally data representation format agnostic.
>>
>
> RDF does have a lot of baggage.
>
>
> No, the problems it solve are both complex and *scary* to those who wish
> said problems were simple.
>
> You can wish simple solutions for complex problems. That's what Web 2.0
> folks have done, and look at how nicely that's played out for the world
> right now.
>
>
> Forcing predicates as URIs, language tags, bnodes, data types, content
> negotiation, XML format from 2002, SPARQL, RDF*, difficulty with arrays,
> forcing everything to be a Set etc. etc.
>
>
> I don't understand the point you are making above.
>
> RDF simply requires the use of IRIs for identifying entities and entity
> relationship types (relations) . What's wrong with that?
>
>
>
> Where one might see beauty, others might see complexity.  Even as an
> abstract format, it is opinionated
>
>
> It isn't.
>
> What's opinionated, is all the thinking and money that went into imposing
> Web 2.0 on the world. That effort is the root of most misconceptions
> associated with RDF.
>

I would say the main hurdle for developers is that when they create an
object every attribute MUST be a URI.  That makes for a poor developer
experience.  That's what I think is opinionated.

>
>
>
>>
>> JSON-LD is good for engaging the so-called "Web Developer" due to the
>> ubiquity of JSON. That developer-profile dominates the application
>> development landscape in today's digital world.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's too much of a heavy-lift for the average developer and they'll
>> choose JSON.  The name RDF is poison to web developers
>>
>>
>> Correction:
>>
>> RDF (formaized EAV i.e., EAV plus formalized Identifiers in the form of
>> IRIs) cannot be poison since Web Developers generally understand EAV and
>> work with it courtesy of structured data delivered via JSON docs :)
>>
>>
>>
>> IMHO we need a JSON based version of WebID, perhaps an extension of
>> schema.org, as a basis to create a modern read-write web
>>
>>
>> You need a Resolvable Identifier (e.g., and HTTP IRI) that resolves to a
>> variety of documents types. If the target audience is Web Developers,
>> JSON-LD or pure JSON will suffice as the default.
>>
>
> Yes, JSON with URis.
>
>
> But you stated above that URI requirement in abstract RDF was problematic?
> I can't reconcile both of those thoughts.
>

Again, we're talking about MUST vs SHOULD.  JSON doesnt reqiure you to use
URIs as predicates, but when you use schema.org they show you how to do
that.


>
> Allow them to be referenced in a document.
>
>
> Once an Entity Relationship Graph is constructed from resolvable IRIs,
> that's exactly what happens, irrespective of content-type chosen (or
> negotiated) for serialization and persistence.
>
>
> Imported to a quad store.  Embed in a web page.  Simpler, more powerful.
> Obvious, really.
>
>
> Quad Store?  Why should that be part of the narrative? You have
> Identifiers, Protocols, and Storage (comprising serialization and
> persistence formats).
>
> IRIs for Names, Entity Relationships Types (Relations), and negotiable
> formats for content serialization and persistence is all that's required.
> Totally obvious, simple, really, whenever all parties stop fighting and
> move forward with flexibility backed up by architectural integrity.
>
> This isn't complicated, IMHO.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen 
> Founder & CEO
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