W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rqtf@w3.org > June 2019

Re: CAPTCHA: Should we illustrate our document?

From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:05:55 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKdCpxy=dwg5WVsskPDKLe1CDd3KS9=sZq7JfkLey8xKASDc9w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Cc: "Noble, Stephen" <steve.noble@pearson.com>, RQTF <public-rqtf@w3.org>
Hi Janina,

> Are there examples of W3C docs with images/media that come to mind?

Media:

   - https://www.w3.org/WAI/perspective-videos/

Images:

   - A quick and rudimentary search turned up this (somewhat dated)
   example: https://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/011/firstcss.en.html

Bottom line: I think there is precedence for both images and media in W3C
documentation.

HTH

JF


On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:57 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:

> Thanks, John. Any thoughts on how what markup we would use, assuming
> we've got say png and mp3 somewhere in W3C webspace?
>
> Are there examples of W3C docs with images/media that come to mind?
>
> I expect to have this conversation with Michael Monday.
>
> Janina
>
> John Foliot writes:
> > Stephen wrote:
> >
> > > although it might be simpler to include a link to an external site
> > somewhere that has such examples.
> >
> > Traditionally we have avoided that in favor of directly embedded content:
> > the reason being that web content is always changing, and if the example
> at
> > an alternative 3rd-party site is changed, it breaks our content and
> impacts
> > the usefulness of our document.
> >
> >
> > > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that
> slow
> > things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> >
> > Like Janina, I consider this to be "ongoing editorial" work (even if
> > somewhat 'extreme'), and Editor's Drafts (and even Candidate
> > Recommendations AFAIK) have been known to change based upon wider-review
> > feedback - part of that wider review is to solicit feedback from the
> larger
> > community, and some of that feedback is that images would facilitate
> > explanation. I believe we are "in bounds" of the W3C Process Document
> > <https://www.w3.org/2019/Process-20190301/>, but like Janina will defer
> to
> > Michael.
> >
> > JF
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:51 AM Noble, Stephen <steve.noble@pearson.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Janina,
> > >
> > > I think a few choice examples could be useful for some readers, and
> would
> > > not detract from textual discussion. That may also be true for an
> example
> > > of an audio CAPTCHA, although it might be simpler to include a link to
> an
> > > external site somewhere that has such examples.
> > >
> > > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that
> slow
> > > things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> > >
> > > --Steve
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:30 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi, Steve, All:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Below are some images that may, or may not help us make our points in
> > >> the CAPTCHA document. Setting aside for the moment the process problem
> > >> that we're currently in the midst of a CfC, do these add materially to
> > >> our argument?
> > >>
> > >> In other words should we incorporate these images, any of them? If so,
> > >> Steve, can you help figure out where in the document.
> > >>
> > >> If RQTF believes adding illustrations of our points helps our case, I
> > >> will figure out how to manage the process problem. I should note that
> I
> > >> did ask Jennie about possibly illustrating CAPTCHA with images that
> were
> > >> licensed in way that would allow us to use them.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >>
> > >> Janina
> > >>
> > >> Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) writes:
> > >> > Hi Janina,
> > >> > Sorry for the delay getting to you. It appears that my contacts here
> > >> are quite busy with other tasks, so I did a bit of digging on the
> internet.
> > >> > There are images of CAPTCHAs with Creative Commons licenses that are
> > >> extremely liberal, and these may be useful to include if still
> possible.
> > >> Hopefully they help.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is one on flickr posted by the Wufoo Team (at least that is
> the
> > >> name on the flickr account and the CAPTCHA image has their name on
> it).
> > >> Here is the link:
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.flickr.com_photos_wufoo_3683064794&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=KZHk6WWEzguXOnjw9Q_XuT0bgf0bzgTNA42K8O5Ivis&e=
> > >> > The text on the image says:
> > >> > WUFOO
> > >> > Tell Us
> > >> > But not too fast!
> > >> > Who's your favorite Ninja Turtle?
> > >> > (radio buttons, first one selected)
> > >> > Leonardo
> > >> > Raphael
> > >> > Donatello
> > >> > Michaelangelo
> > >> > Type the two words in the image below.*
> > >> > (Words with strike through and wavy presentation) Ministry Tried;
> then
> > >> text field.
> > >> > Recaptcha with refresh button, audio button, help button, stop spam,
> > >> read books.
> > >> > Submit button.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is also one that is kind of interesting in terms of puzzle
> type
> > >> of CAPTCHA.
> > >> > It is on Wikimedia Commons, and has a liberal reuse license as well.
> > >> Here is the link:
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__commons.wikimedia.org_wiki_File-3ATranslate-5Fregistration-5Fprocess-5Fcaptcha-5Fwireframe.png&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=PTipcmiC_yFS0qRwjLoScR4WpqkNf-nBDH3w-5_mOZM&e=
> > >> > The text on the image says:
> > >> > Thank you beta_tester, you are almost a translator!
> > >> > You can make your first translation now to activate your account:
> > >> > (can't tell how this is structured in the HMTL, but boxes around the
> > >> next text)
> > >> > Text to translate (next box) Empty string (button?) Try another
> > >> (includes refresh symbol)
> > >> > What's this text? Reason for account deletion
> > >> > (next part looks like a 4 x 1 table)
> > >> > Select the correct translation for French (drop down arrow)
> > >> > (check mark) Chaine vide
> > >> > Text vide
> > >> > (text box, help text) Propose a different translation
> > >> > (button) Activate account
> > >> >
> > >> > Excellent visual example that may cause challenges for those with
> > >> reading disabilities on Wikipedia..
> > >> > Letters smwm that are squished, varying heights, in almost cursive
> > >> looking font, all lower case.
> > >> >
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__de.wikipedia.org_wiki_Datei-3ACaptcha-2Dsmwm.svg&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=VTlRzid2alVu4CvG4_zrhoCKb3CcXRdzmKF0JgEtNsc&e=
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Jennie
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> > >> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 2:28 PM
> > >> > To: Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>
> > >> > Subject: yet another delay in CAPTCHA
> > >> >
> > >> > This message may be from an external email source.
> > >> > Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> > >> suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi, Jennie:
> > >> >
> > >> > Just keeping you updated on current status.
> > >> >
> > >> > As per the attached list email, a close read of the entire document
> > >> over the weekend disclosed a flaw we want to fix in Federated
> Identities
> > >> and in Single Sign-On.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > What that means is another short delay to Wednesday early AM. If the
> > >> RQTF call believes the draft as of Wednesday AM is ready, we'll move
> to a
> > >> CfC in APA, but not sooner.
> > >> >
> > >> > So, still time for COGA tweaks!
> > >> >
> > >> > Best,
> > >> >
> > >> > Janina
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> >
> > >> > Janina Sajka
> > >> >
> > >> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > >> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fa11y.org-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DGORHbhvBU-252BlZ2wwDuJwUBvxt7heNJlfzHs4P7V5pEKw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=Q5f9nT48veGUrSRshtnk_LnPn6ru4Ly7kiWt2l7XxY8&e=
> > >> >
> > >> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> (WAI)
> > >> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252Fwai-252Fapa-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DOdE4kUUd74cmtceHnP98eSDc1VeErLF7ZXgXH3eBQ6M-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=T6CWqyUN1_YHusRjfFI9EFIr8ZYoQfDX7tEKsUiXdVk&e=
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >> Janina Sajka
> > >>
> > >> Linux Foundation Fellow
> > >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=sjrWXcObiEtvU_jw8jTrv5yCV_IRVdhaQVWArK0Z47g&e=
> > >>
> > >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> (WAI)
> > >> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=L7sXmp-jCQOGyxUzMd-Sxj_vbwByVJF19Uzh1eXfDj8&e=
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve Noble
> > > Instructional Designer, Accessibility
> > > Psychometrics & Testing Services
> > >
> > > *Pearson*
> > >
> > > 502 969 3088
> > > steve.noble@pearson.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > *​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC
> Representative
> > Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
> > deque.com
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>
>

-- 
*​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com
Received on Friday, 21 June 2019 15:07:04 UTC

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