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Re: CAPTCHA: Should we illustrate our document?

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:57:19 -0400
To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
Cc: "Noble, Stephen" <steve.noble@pearson.com>, RQTF <public-rqtf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20190621145719.GN2270@rednote.net>
Thanks, John. Any thoughts on how what markup we would use, assuming
we've got say png and mp3 somewhere in W3C webspace?

Are there examples of W3C docs with images/media that come to mind?

I expect to have this conversation with Michael Monday.

Janina

John Foliot writes:
> Stephen wrote:
> 
> > although it might be simpler to include a link to an external site
> somewhere that has such examples.
> 
> Traditionally we have avoided that in favor of directly embedded content:
> the reason being that web content is always changing, and if the example at
> an alternative 3rd-party site is changed, it breaks our content and impacts
> the usefulness of our document.
> 
> 
> > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that slow
> things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> 
> Like Janina, I consider this to be "ongoing editorial" work (even if
> somewhat 'extreme'), and Editor's Drafts (and even Candidate
> Recommendations AFAIK) have been known to change based upon wider-review
> feedback - part of that wider review is to solicit feedback from the larger
> community, and some of that feedback is that images would facilitate
> explanation. I believe we are "in bounds" of the W3C Process Document
> <https://www.w3.org/2019/Process-20190301/>, but like Janina will defer to
> Michael.
> 
> JF
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:51 AM Noble, Stephen <steve.noble@pearson.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Janina,
> >
> > I think a few choice examples could be useful for some readers, and would
> > not detract from textual discussion. That may also be true for an example
> > of an audio CAPTCHA, although it might be simpler to include a link to an
> > external site somewhere that has such examples.
> >
> > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that slow
> > things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:30 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, Steve, All:
> >>
> >>
> >> Below are some images that may, or may not help us make our points in
> >> the CAPTCHA document. Setting aside for the moment the process problem
> >> that we're currently in the midst of a CfC, do these add materially to
> >> our argument?
> >>
> >> In other words should we incorporate these images, any of them? If so,
> >> Steve, can you help figure out where in the document.
> >>
> >> If RQTF believes adding illustrations of our points helps our case, I
> >> will figure out how to manage the process problem. I should note that I
> >> did ask Jennie about possibly illustrating CAPTCHA with images that were
> >> licensed in way that would allow us to use them.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Janina
> >>
> >> Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) writes:
> >> > Hi Janina,
> >> > Sorry for the delay getting to you. It appears that my contacts here
> >> are quite busy with other tasks, so I did a bit of digging on the internet.
> >> > There are images of CAPTCHAs with Creative Commons licenses that are
> >> extremely liberal, and these may be useful to include if still possible.
> >> Hopefully they help.
> >> >
> >> > There is one on flickr posted by the Wufoo Team (at least that is the
> >> name on the flickr account and the CAPTCHA image has their name on it).
> >> Here is the link:
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.flickr.com_photos_wufoo_3683064794&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=KZHk6WWEzguXOnjw9Q_XuT0bgf0bzgTNA42K8O5Ivis&e=
> >> > The text on the image says:
> >> > WUFOO
> >> > Tell Us
> >> > But not too fast!
> >> > Who's your favorite Ninja Turtle?
> >> > (radio buttons, first one selected)
> >> > Leonardo
> >> > Raphael
> >> > Donatello
> >> > Michaelangelo
> >> > Type the two words in the image below.*
> >> > (Words with strike through and wavy presentation) Ministry Tried; then
> >> text field.
> >> > Recaptcha with refresh button, audio button, help button, stop spam,
> >> read books.
> >> > Submit button.
> >> >
> >> > There is also one that is kind of interesting in terms of puzzle type
> >> of CAPTCHA.
> >> > It is on Wikimedia Commons, and has a liberal reuse license as well.
> >> Here is the link:
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__commons.wikimedia.org_wiki_File-3ATranslate-5Fregistration-5Fprocess-5Fcaptcha-5Fwireframe.png&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=PTipcmiC_yFS0qRwjLoScR4WpqkNf-nBDH3w-5_mOZM&e=
> >> > The text on the image says:
> >> > Thank you beta_tester, you are almost a translator!
> >> > You can make your first translation now to activate your account:
> >> > (can't tell how this is structured in the HMTL, but boxes around the
> >> next text)
> >> > Text to translate (next box) Empty string (button?) Try another
> >> (includes refresh symbol)
> >> > What's this text? Reason for account deletion
> >> > (next part looks like a 4 x 1 table)
> >> > Select the correct translation for French (drop down arrow)
> >> > (check mark) Chaine vide
> >> > Text vide
> >> > (text box, help text) Propose a different translation
> >> > (button) Activate account
> >> >
> >> > Excellent visual example that may cause challenges for those with
> >> reading disabilities on Wikipedia..
> >> > Letters smwm that are squished, varying heights, in almost cursive
> >> looking font, all lower case.
> >> >
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__de.wikipedia.org_wiki_Datei-3ACaptcha-2Dsmwm.svg&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=VTlRzid2alVu4CvG4_zrhoCKb3CcXRdzmKF0JgEtNsc&e=
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Jennie
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> >> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 2:28 PM
> >> > To: Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>
> >> > Subject: yet another delay in CAPTCHA
> >> >
> >> > This message may be from an external email source.
> >> > Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> >> suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi, Jennie:
> >> >
> >> > Just keeping you updated on current status.
> >> >
> >> > As per the attached list email, a close read of the entire document
> >> over the weekend disclosed a flaw we want to fix in Federated Identities
> >> and in Single Sign-On.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > What that means is another short delay to Wednesday early AM. If the
> >> RQTF call believes the draft as of Wednesday AM is ready, we'll move to a
> >> CfC in APA, but not sooner.
> >> >
> >> > So, still time for COGA tweaks!
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> >
> >> > Janina
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Janina Sajka
> >> >
> >> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> >> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fa11y.org-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DGORHbhvBU-252BlZ2wwDuJwUBvxt7heNJlfzHs4P7V5pEKw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=Q5f9nT48veGUrSRshtnk_LnPn6ru4Ly7kiWt2l7XxY8&e=
> >> >
> >> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252Fwai-252Fapa-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DOdE4kUUd74cmtceHnP98eSDc1VeErLF7ZXgXH3eBQ6M-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=T6CWqyUN1_YHusRjfFI9EFIr8ZYoQfDX7tEKsUiXdVk&e=
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Janina Sajka
> >>
> >> Linux Foundation Fellow
> >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=sjrWXcObiEtvU_jw8jTrv5yCV_IRVdhaQVWArK0Z47g&e=
> >>
> >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=L7sXmp-jCQOGyxUzMd-Sxj_vbwByVJF19Uzh1eXfDj8&e=
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Steve Noble
> > Instructional Designer, Accessibility
> > Psychometrics & Testing Services
> >
> > *Pearson*
> >
> > 502 969 3088
> > steve.noble@pearson.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> *​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
> Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
> deque.com

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
Received on Friday, 21 June 2019 14:57:48 UTC

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