W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rqtf@w3.org > June 2019

Our CAPTCHA doc with image and audio examples

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:45:46 -0400
To: public-rqtf@w3.org
Message-ID: <20190621214546.GO2270@rednote.net>
OK, so I've created a quick and dirty branch with an example traditional
CAPTCHA image and the example audio CAPTCHA Steve found. What do you all
think?

https://raw.githack.com/w3c/apa/imagenary/captcha/index.html


Note the audio is actually an example of a recent reCAPTCHA V. 2
development we say nice things about in Sec. 3.2.1. Our relevant
paragraph reads:

"One reCAPTCHA V. 2 innovation seems most promising. Rather than
reproduce characters, users are asked to type the words they see (or
hear). It even appears unnecessary to spell these correctly or to enter
all the words presented in order to be adjudged human."


John Foliot writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> > Are there examples of W3C docs with images/media that come to mind?
> 
> Media:
> 
>    - https://www.w3.org/WAI/perspective-videos/
> 
> Images:
> 
>    - A quick and rudimentary search turned up this (somewhat dated)
>    example: https://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/011/firstcss.en.html
> 
> Bottom line: I think there is precedence for both images and media in W3C
> documentation.
> 
> HTH
> 
> JF
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:57 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, John. Any thoughts on how what markup we would use, assuming
> > we've got say png and mp3 somewhere in W3C webspace?
> >
> > Are there examples of W3C docs with images/media that come to mind?
> >
> > I expect to have this conversation with Michael Monday.
> >
> > Janina
> >
> > John Foliot writes:
> > > Stephen wrote:
> > >
> > > > although it might be simpler to include a link to an external site
> > > somewhere that has such examples.
> > >
> > > Traditionally we have avoided that in favor of directly embedded content:
> > > the reason being that web content is always changing, and if the example
> > at
> > > an alternative 3rd-party site is changed, it breaks our content and
> > impacts
> > > the usefulness of our document.
> > >
> > >
> > > > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that
> > slow
> > > things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> > >
> > > Like Janina, I consider this to be "ongoing editorial" work (even if
> > > somewhat 'extreme'), and Editor's Drafts (and even Candidate
> > > Recommendations AFAIK) have been known to change based upon wider-review
> > > feedback - part of that wider review is to solicit feedback from the
> > larger
> > > community, and some of that feedback is that images would facilitate
> > > explanation. I believe we are "in bounds" of the W3C Process Document
> > > <https://www.w3.org/2019/Process-20190301/>, but like Janina will defer
> > to
> > > Michael.
> > >
> > > JF
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:51 AM Noble, Stephen <steve.noble@pearson.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Janina,
> > > >
> > > > I think a few choice examples could be useful for some readers, and
> > would
> > > > not detract from textual discussion. That may also be true for an
> > example
> > > > of an audio CAPTCHA, although it might be simpler to include a link to
> > an
> > > > external site somewhere that has such examples.
> > > >
> > > > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that
> > slow
> > > > things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> > > >
> > > > --Steve
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:30 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi, Steve, All:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Below are some images that may, or may not help us make our points in
> > > >> the CAPTCHA document. Setting aside for the moment the process problem
> > > >> that we're currently in the midst of a CfC, do these add materially to
> > > >> our argument?
> > > >>
> > > >> In other words should we incorporate these images, any of them? If so,
> > > >> Steve, can you help figure out where in the document.
> > > >>
> > > >> If RQTF believes adding illustrations of our points helps our case, I
> > > >> will figure out how to manage the process problem. I should note that
> > I
> > > >> did ask Jennie about possibly illustrating CAPTCHA with images that
> > were
> > > >> licensed in way that would allow us to use them.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >>
> > > >> Janina
> > > >>
> > > >> Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) writes:
> > > >> > Hi Janina,
> > > >> > Sorry for the delay getting to you. It appears that my contacts here
> > > >> are quite busy with other tasks, so I did a bit of digging on the
> > internet.
> > > >> > There are images of CAPTCHAs with Creative Commons licenses that are
> > > >> extremely liberal, and these may be useful to include if still
> > possible.
> > > >> Hopefully they help.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > There is one on flickr posted by the Wufoo Team (at least that is
> > the
> > > >> name on the flickr account and the CAPTCHA image has their name on
> > it).
> > > >> Here is the link:
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.flickr.com_photos_wufoo_3683064794&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=KZHk6WWEzguXOnjw9Q_XuT0bgf0bzgTNA42K8O5Ivis&e=
> > > >> > The text on the image says:
> > > >> > WUFOO
> > > >> > Tell Us
> > > >> > But not too fast!
> > > >> > Who's your favorite Ninja Turtle?
> > > >> > (radio buttons, first one selected)
> > > >> > Leonardo
> > > >> > Raphael
> > > >> > Donatello
> > > >> > Michaelangelo
> > > >> > Type the two words in the image below.*
> > > >> > (Words with strike through and wavy presentation) Ministry Tried;
> > then
> > > >> text field.
> > > >> > Recaptcha with refresh button, audio button, help button, stop spam,
> > > >> read books.
> > > >> > Submit button.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > There is also one that is kind of interesting in terms of puzzle
> > type
> > > >> of CAPTCHA.
> > > >> > It is on Wikimedia Commons, and has a liberal reuse license as well.
> > > >> Here is the link:
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__commons.wikimedia.org_wiki_File-3ATranslate-5Fregistration-5Fprocess-5Fcaptcha-5Fwireframe.png&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=PTipcmiC_yFS0qRwjLoScR4WpqkNf-nBDH3w-5_mOZM&e=
> > > >> > The text on the image says:
> > > >> > Thank you beta_tester, you are almost a translator!
> > > >> > You can make your first translation now to activate your account:
> > > >> > (can't tell how this is structured in the HMTL, but boxes around the
> > > >> next text)
> > > >> > Text to translate (next box) Empty string (button?) Try another
> > > >> (includes refresh symbol)
> > > >> > What's this text? Reason for account deletion
> > > >> > (next part looks like a 4 x 1 table)
> > > >> > Select the correct translation for French (drop down arrow)
> > > >> > (check mark) Chaine vide
> > > >> > Text vide
> > > >> > (text box, help text) Propose a different translation
> > > >> > (button) Activate account
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Excellent visual example that may cause challenges for those with
> > > >> reading disabilities on Wikipedia..
> > > >> > Letters smwm that are squished, varying heights, in almost cursive
> > > >> looking font, all lower case.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__de.wikipedia.org_wiki_Datei-3ACaptcha-2Dsmwm.svg&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=VTlRzid2alVu4CvG4_zrhoCKb3CcXRdzmKF0JgEtNsc&e=
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Jennie
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> > > >> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 2:28 PM
> > > >> > To: Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>
> > > >> > Subject: yet another delay in CAPTCHA
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This message may be from an external email source.
> > > >> > Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> > > >> suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Hi, Jennie:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Just keeping you updated on current status.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As per the attached list email, a close read of the entire document
> > > >> over the weekend disclosed a flaw we want to fix in Federated
> > Identities
> > > >> and in Single Sign-On.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > What that means is another short delay to Wednesday early AM. If the
> > > >> RQTF call believes the draft as of Wednesday AM is ready, we'll move
> > to a
> > > >> CfC in APA, but not sooner.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So, still time for COGA tweaks!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Best,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Janina
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Janina Sajka
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > >> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fa11y.org-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DGORHbhvBU-252BlZ2wwDuJwUBvxt7heNJlfzHs4P7V5pEKw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=Q5f9nT48veGUrSRshtnk_LnPn6ru4Ly7kiWt2l7XxY8&e=
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> > (WAI)
> > > >> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252Fwai-252Fapa-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DOdE4kUUd74cmtceHnP98eSDc1VeErLF7ZXgXH3eBQ6M-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=T6CWqyUN1_YHusRjfFI9EFIr8ZYoQfDX7tEKsUiXdVk&e=
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >>
> > > >> Janina Sajka
> > > >>
> > > >> Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=sjrWXcObiEtvU_jw8jTrv5yCV_IRVdhaQVWArK0Z47g&e=
> > > >>
> > > >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> > (WAI)
> > > >> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > > >>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=L7sXmp-jCQOGyxUzMd-Sxj_vbwByVJF19Uzh1eXfDj8&e=
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve Noble
> > > > Instructional Designer, Accessibility
> > > > Psychometrics & Testing Services
> > > >
> > > > *Pearson*
> > > >
> > > > 502 969 3088
> > > > steve.noble@pearson.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC
> > Representative
> > > Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
> > > deque.com
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> >
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> >
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> *​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
> Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
> deque.com

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
Received on Friday, 21 June 2019 21:46:12 UTC

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