W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rqtf@w3.org > June 2019

Re: CAPTCHA: Should we illustrate our document?

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 22:21:21 -0400
To: "Noble, Stephen" <steve.noble@pearson.com>
Cc: RQTF <public-rqtf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20190621022121.GM2270@rednote.net>
Awesome, Steve! I'll work on getting these into the Editor's Draft
before we go out for wide review.

Thanks for this assist!

Janina

Noble, Stephen writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> I looked over the samples available at the three links that Jennie
> mentioned. I think including a slight altered version of one of them would
> be good. I have attached the image and edited the alt text slightly. In the
> case of this image, cropping it to focus only on the captcha itself seemed
> the best to promote clarity, since the surrounding text would be
> extraneous. Such modifications are allowed under the Creative Commons
> license. Here are the pertinent details:
> Filename: distorted-characters-recaptcha-v1.png
> Place this in section 2.1.1 Traditional Character-Based CAPTCHA, between
> the first and second paragraph
> 
> Alt text: "Type the two words in the image below.*" | Words with strike
> through and wavy presentation: "Ministry Tried" | then a text field |
> Recaptcha trademark with refresh button, audio button, help button, and the
> words: "stop spam, read books" | then a final Submit button
> URI for original source:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/wufoo/3683064794/in/photostream/
> URI to Creative Commons licence:
> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/legalcode
> Other required notice: This graphic is a derivative work. It has been
> cropped to remove extraneous material.
> 
> Finding graphics under Creative Commons to help illustrate other types of
> CAPTCHAs was something that proved elusive, despite spending a good amount
> of time on it. There's a nice example of an image based ReCAPTCHA v.2 in
> Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Images_Recaptcha.png  but
> the page information mentions that it is a screenshot from a commercial
> website protected under copyright, but that they believe that they can use
> it under Fair Use. I don't know if that's a tactic that the W3C follows. If
> not, then maybe we could just include a link to that page where this
> example lives. If we used this image, then I would place it is section
> 2.1.4.1 Visual Comparison CAPTCHAs, between the first and second
> paragraphs. The alt text for that image would be: "Select all images below
> that match this one" | image of a cat | followed by 9 images including
> cats, dogs, hamsters and plants | refresh button, audio button, information
> button | then a final Verify button.
> 
> I did find an audio CAPTCHA recording available under a Creative Commons
> license. I have attached the file, but for the life of me I cannot figure
> out what the distorted speech is actually saying, so I don't know how we
> can make it accessible to someone who is deaf, other than to say it is
> garbled human speech. If we decide to use it, I would place it under
> section 2.1.2 Sound Output, between the first and second paragraphs.
> Here are the details:
> Page URL: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Captcha.ogg
> File URL: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Captcha.ogg
> Attribution: reCAPTCHA at Carnegie Mellon University [<a href="
> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0">CC BY 3.0</a>], <a href="
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Captcha.ogg">via Wikimedia
> Commons</a>
> 
> I hope this will be helpful.
> 
> --Steve
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:19 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> 
> > Hi, Steve:
> >
> > As I continue to mull the process implications, I'm now thinking this is
> > editorial in the extreme, so arguably no impact on our CfC.  We're not
> > changing the substance of what we say, just amplifying how we say things.
> > But, I'll
> > check with Michael.
> >
> > It would be good to get these images into the Editor's Draft, which will
> > be the basis of the document we publish for wide review. The Editor's
> > Draft is already newer than the draft pointed to by the CfC because we
> > merged your bibliographic references this morning.
> >
> > If you have the time to suggest where in the text we might stick any of
> > the images that Jennie suggests, I can add them. Also, any other image
> > or aural files you might want to suggest would be OK--we just need to be
> > careful of the copyright.
> >
> > Thanks for the quick response!
> >
> > Janina
> >
> > PS: I like the notion of pointing to a sound captcha, if we can find one.
> >
> >
> > Noble, Stephen writes:
> > > Hi Janina,
> > >
> > > I think a few choice examples could be useful for some readers, and would
> > > not detract from textual discussion. That may also be true for an example
> > > of an audio CAPTCHA, although it might be simpler to include a link to an
> > > external site somewhere that has such examples.
> > >
> > > So, how would adding such examples impact the current CfC? Does that slow
> > > things down and require yet another CfC after the additions?
> > >
> > > --Steve
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:30 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi, Steve, All:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Below are some images that may, or may not help us make our points in
> > > > the CAPTCHA document. Setting aside for the moment the process problem
> > > > that we're currently in the midst of a CfC, do these add materially to
> > > > our argument?
> > > >
> > > > In other words should we incorporate these images, any of them? If so,
> > > > Steve, can you help figure out where in the document.
> > > >
> > > > If RQTF believes adding illustrations of our points helps our case, I
> > > > will figure out how to manage the process problem. I should note that I
> > > > did ask Jennie about possibly illustrating CAPTCHA with images that
> > were
> > > > licensed in way that would allow us to use them.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Janina
> > > >
> > > > Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) writes:
> > > > > Hi Janina,
> > > > > Sorry for the delay getting to you. It appears that my contacts here
> > are
> > > > quite busy with other tasks, so I did a bit of digging on the internet.
> > > > > There are images of CAPTCHAs with Creative Commons licenses that are
> > > > extremely liberal, and these may be useful to include if still
> > possible.
> > > > Hopefully they help.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is one on flickr posted by the Wufoo Team (at least that is the
> > > > name on the flickr account and the CAPTCHA image has their name on it).
> > > > Here is the link:
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.flickr.com_photos_wufoo_3683064794&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=KZHk6WWEzguXOnjw9Q_XuT0bgf0bzgTNA42K8O5Ivis&e=
> > > > > The text on the image says:
> > > > > WUFOO
> > > > > Tell Us
> > > > > But not too fast!
> > > > > Who's your favorite Ninja Turtle?
> > > > > (radio buttons, first one selected)
> > > > > Leonardo
> > > > > Raphael
> > > > > Donatello
> > > > > Michaelangelo
> > > > > Type the two words in the image below.*
> > > > > (Words with strike through and wavy presentation) Ministry Tried;
> > then
> > > > text field.
> > > > > Recaptcha with refresh button, audio button, help button, stop spam,
> > > > read books.
> > > > > Submit button.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is also one that is kind of interesting in terms of puzzle
> > type of
> > > > CAPTCHA.
> > > > > It is on Wikimedia Commons, and has a liberal reuse license as well.
> > > > Here is the link:
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__commons.wikimedia.org_wiki_File-3ATranslate-5Fregistration-5Fprocess-5Fcaptcha-5Fwireframe.png&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=PTipcmiC_yFS0qRwjLoScR4WpqkNf-nBDH3w-5_mOZM&e=
> > > > > The text on the image says:
> > > > > Thank you beta_tester, you are almost a translator!
> > > > > You can make your first translation now to activate your account:
> > > > > (can't tell how this is structured in the HMTL, but boxes around the
> > > > next text)
> > > > > Text to translate (next box) Empty string (button?) Try another
> > > > (includes refresh symbol)
> > > > > What's this text? Reason for account deletion
> > > > > (next part looks like a 4 x 1 table)
> > > > > Select the correct translation for French (drop down arrow)
> > > > > (check mark) Chaine vide
> > > > > Text vide
> > > > > (text box, help text) Propose a different translation
> > > > > (button) Activate account
> > > > >
> > > > > Excellent visual example that may cause challenges for those with
> > > > reading disabilities on Wikipedia..
> > > > > Letters smwm that are squished, varying heights, in almost cursive
> > > > looking font, all lower case.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__de.wikipedia.org_wiki_Datei-3ACaptcha-2Dsmwm.svg&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=VTlRzid2alVu4CvG4_zrhoCKb3CcXRdzmKF0JgEtNsc&e=
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jennie
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 2:28 PM
> > > > > To: Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>
> > > > > Subject: yet another delay in CAPTCHA
> > > > >
> > > > > This message may be from an external email source.
> > > > > Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> > > > suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi, Jennie:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just keeping you updated on current status.
> > > > >
> > > > > As per the attached list email, a close read of the entire document
> > over
> > > > the weekend disclosed a flaw we want to fix in Federated Identities
> > and in
> > > > Single Sign-On.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What that means is another short delay to Wednesday early AM. If the
> > > > RQTF call believes the draft as of Wednesday AM is ready, we'll move
> > to a
> > > > CfC in APA, but not sooner.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, still time for COGA tweaks!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka
> > > > >
> > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fa11y.org-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DGORHbhvBU-252BlZ2wwDuJwUBvxt7heNJlfzHs4P7V5pEKw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=Q5f9nT48veGUrSRshtnk_LnPn6ru4Ly7kiWt2l7XxY8&e=
> > > > >
> > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> > (WAI)
> > > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252Fwai-252Fapa-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257Cjennie.delisi-2540state.mn.us-257C9e16779bd1b0493a119308d6f359df5c-257Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c-257C0-257C0-257C636963964657059398-26amp-3Bsdata-3DOdE4kUUd74cmtceHnP98eSDc1VeErLF7ZXgXH3eBQ6M-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=T6CWqyUN1_YHusRjfFI9EFIr8ZYoQfDX7tEKsUiXdVk&e=
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka
> > > >
> > > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=sjrWXcObiEtvU_jw8jTrv5yCV_IRVdhaQVWArK0Z47g&e=
> > > >
> > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=T2vXwnPiJ_d49tp8AEMGYo9RfSSnAjhbluw4zf0oPPY&s=L7sXmp-jCQOGyxUzMd-Sxj_vbwByVJF19Uzh1eXfDj8&e=
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve Noble
> > > Instructional Designer, Accessibility
> > > Psychometrics & Testing Services
> > >
> > > *Pearson*
> > >
> > > 502 969 3088
> > > steve.noble@pearson.com
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> >
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=Z3wQUB6xsEwTnTrLy56fIio3VtfW7QmvmurusmWdaiE&s=7RTR-iNgR_CsK5lKmD-FZ8x8Z7c_qihH5XruhcyY1kU&e=
> >
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=DwIBAg&c=0YLnzTkWOdJlub_y7qAx8Q&r=e0Vlq1-H9s-GydHZ8dXqhyYdB-jv9NvThaezSlozh9I&m=Z3wQUB6xsEwTnTrLy56fIio3VtfW7QmvmurusmWdaiE&s=O7vddJ_9L_SaU14l8GYkEw_ah-oZiDOkxck6blKvMjo&e=
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Steve Noble
> Instructional Designer, Accessibility
> Psychometrics & Testing Services
> 
> *Pearson*
> 
> 502 969 3088
> steve.noble@pearson.com




-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
Received on Friday, 21 June 2019 02:21:50 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Tuesday, 17 January 2023 20:26:46 UTC