- From: Jos de Bruijn <jos.debruijn@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:10:12 +0100
- To: Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org>
- CC: Chris Welty <cawelty@gmail.com>, RIF <public-rif-wg@w3.org>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Birte Glimm <birte.glimm@comlab.ox.ac.uk>, Chimezie Ogbuji <ogbujic@ccf.org>, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
On 2010-03-12 15:32, Axel Polleres wrote: > On 12 Mar 2010, at 14:09, Chris Welty wrote: >> Axel, >> >> I really really really do not understand why it matters whether RIF specifies this or SPARQL. >> RIF should be viewed as read-only right now unless there is an error. > > 1) the *main issue* is the URI we use for dereferencing, which we think should be in the rif: namespace, i.e. we need > rif:'s blessing if we do so. > > > I mentioned in the mail already that it would probably be an alternative if we could just produce a (joint?) > note or separate (rec?) document on this. That would mean we wouldn't touch the rif-rdf-owl spec as such. However ... > > 2) ... as I see it there is *potential issue* around a separate spec which worries me a lot... > if we *don't* specify the importing from RDF within rif-rdf-owl, then whatever we write in that note separate spec > would be potentially incompatible with rif-rdf-owl ... here's why: > > Say you have two rulesets R1, R2 and one graph G: > > G: > G <> rif:imports [rif:ruleset R1 rif:profile <...simple...> ]. > > R2: > Imports( G <...simple...> ) > ... some rules ... > > R1: > (Imports R2) > ... some other rules ... no imports clause > > Now... depending on whether or not the imports-mechanism in RDF has a semantics, the RIF-RDF combination (R2,G) > has different semantics. I'm not sure what you mean with the imports mechanism having a semantics. The semantics of the combination (R2,G) is clearly defined in the SWC spec. Cheers, Jos > > So, my worry is, if we postpone that issue to post-RIF, we can't define it in an upwards compatible way at all... > besides, I think it is a very minor change, which makes live much easier for applications coming from the RDF side > doing something with RIF and doesn't seem to affect 99% of those caring from the RIF side only. > > Axel > > >> -Chris >> >> Axel Polleres wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We had the topic of "rif:imports" coming up in SPARQL again in our Entailment regimes taskforce call this week. >>> >>> The reason why we (from the SPARQL side) would prefer to have that imports mechanism defined in RIF, >>> is mainly that we think that the URIs to use for defining this imports mechanism should be in the rif: >>> namespace, since this imports mechanism is likely useful not only for SPARQL but also for other >>> RDF applications that wnat to interact with RIF. >>> >>> Thus, I wanted to inquire again, whether we'd have a chance to get that an import mechanism for RIF from RDF into >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-rdf-owl/ ? >>> >>> If the group overall still thinks that it is too late to get this into the spec, in turn, I wanted to ask/raise >>> again how/whether we could proceed to publish this text as a WG Note? >>> >>> I have earlier made a simple proposal to add a new section to the current spec, which we elaborated a bit now: >>> >>> 1) In the introduction of http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC, >>> I would suggest to add: >>> >>> "RDF Graphs in RIF-RDF-combinations are assumed to not contain any triples using the predicates >>> rif:imports, rif:ruleset and rif:profile we refer to Section 6 for treatment of such graphs. >>> " >>> >>> 2) Further, I would suggest to add a new section: >>> ==================================================================================== >>> >>> = 6 Importing RIF rulesets in RDF = >>> >>> The definitions so far, only covered RIF-RDF-combinations where the RDF graphs did not contain >>> triples using rif:usingRuleset in predicate positions. To lift this restriction, we define >>> RIF-X-combinations (R,S) where any of the graphs in S contains triples with the predicates >>> rif:imports, rif:ruleset and rif:profile >>> by a reduction to combbinations without such triples as follows. >>> >>> Let (R, S) be a combination as above. The reduction of R is defined as the >>> RIF-X-combinations (R', S') where >>> (i) S' is identical to S with all rif:imports, rif:ruleset and rif:profile triples removed, >>> and >>> (ii) R' is identical to the RIF document R, >>> with the addition that R' has additional imports clauses >>> Imports( R1 ) >>> Imports( G P ) >>> for any triples >>> >>> <> rif:imports [rif:ruleset R rif:profile P ]. >>> >>> in (simple entailed by) S, such that R1 is an IRI referring to a RIF document and >>> P is a URI referring to an imports profile as defined in >>> Section http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC#Profiles_of_Imports >>> >>> Together with the conditions in section 5.2 this ensures that RIF-X-combinations where R is empty, i.e. which >>> are only defined by a set of RDF graphs, can also import RIF rulesets. >>> >>> ==================================================================================== >>> >>> In case there is a chance to get this on one of the next agendas, please let me know, since I have recently not >>> really had time to be follow the RIF TCs, but I'd be joining for that. >>> >>> best, >>> Axel >>> >>> P.S.: Condition (i) which removes all the rif:usingruleSet triples, i.e., >>> just treats these triples as a directive rather than part of the graph, may be dropped, i.e. simply >>> keeping S as is, accepting the rif:imports, rif:ruleset and rif:profile triples as part of the graph. >>> >> >> -- >> Dr. Christopher A. Welty IBM Watson Research Center >> +1.914.784.7055 19 Skyline Dr. >> cawelty@gmail.com Hawthorne, NY 10532 >> http://www.research.ibm.com/people/w/welty >> > > -- Jos de Bruijn Web: http://www.debruijn.net/ LinkedIn: http://it.linkedin.com/in/josdebruijn Skype: josdebruijn Google Talk: jos.debruijn@gmail.com Mobile phone: +43 660 313 5733
Received on Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:10:51 UTC