- From: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
- Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:32 -0500
- To: RDF WG <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>
- CC: Linked JSON <public-linked-json@w3.org>
On 02/13/2013 05:11 PM, Richard Cyganiak wrote: > PROPOSAL: Put @id on all graphs. > > Why the aversion against simple and obvious solutions? The simple and obvious solution you propose is wrong for developers. It attempts to side-step an arbitrary constraint imposed on developers by RDF Concepts by making developers lives harder. Worse, it ignores the reality of transient messages, including transient RDF Datasets that must be identified with document-local identifiers if the digital signatures are going to work out. Look at this from the standpoint of a Web Payments message. Something that is completely transient, but needs to be digitally signed: [{ "@graph": { "source": "http://mybank.com/accounts/manu", "destination": "http://yourbank.com/accounts/richard", "amount": "5.00", "currency": "USD" } },{ "@graph": { "source": "http://mybank.com/accounts/manu", "destination": "http://yourbank.com/accounts/kingsley", "amount": "5.00", "currency": "USD" } }] You are stating that instead of doing the thing above, that we have to now require all developers to generate identifiers for that dataset by specifying an IRI for each graph: [{ "@id": "http://payswarm.com/transients#graph-38234jlkfsj9834u", "@graph": { "source": "http://mybank.com/accounts/manu", "destination": "http://yourbank.com/accounts/richard", "amount": "5.00", "currency": "USD" } },{ "@id": "http://payswarm.com/transients#graph-38234jlkfsj9834u", "@graph": { "source": "http://mybank.com/accounts/manu", "destination": "http://yourbank.com/accounts/kingsley", "amount": "5.00", "currency": "USD" } }] Why make developers jump through hoops because of some deficiency in RDF? They don't have to do this for JSON. What we're proposing is that we can auto-generate the IDs to get around RDFs deficiency by using "graph:" IRIs, but only when we HAVE to serialize down to another RDF serialization format (like NQuads, which we have to do when doing the RDF Graph Normalization stuff). So, JSON-LD developers can happily use the first bit of markup and can remain completely unaware that graph name identifiers are automatically created for them when they normalize to the NQuad serialization format: _:c14n1 <https://example.com/vocab#source> <http://mybank.com/accounts/manu> <graph:1> . _:c14n1 <http://example.com/vocab#destination> <http://yourbank.com/accounts/richard> <graph:1> . _:c14n1 <http://example.com/vocab#amount> "5.00" <graph:1> . _:c14n1 <http://example.com/vocab#currency> "USD" <graph:1> . _:c14n2 <https://example.com/vocab#source> <http://mybank.com/accounts/manu> <graph:2> . _:c14n2 <http://example.com/vocab#destination> <http://yourbank.com/accounts/kingsley> <graph:2> . _:c14n2 <http://example.com/vocab#amount> "5.00" <graph:2> . _:c14n2 <http://example.com/vocab#currency> "USD" <graph:2> . > You seem to consistently choose the path of greatest resistance. I consistently reject solutions that are anti-developer or anti-author. :) I want people to look at RDF and say "Oh, that makes sense." instead of "WTF? Why do I have to explicitly name graphs in certain cases when that requirement doesn't exist at all for blank nodes?!" This WG is punting on trying to solve the problem of document-local identifiers. I get that. There are, however, repercussions for doing so. I was asked to go back and think about using fragment identifiers as auto-generated graph names. After discussing it with our CTO, it became clear that fragment identifiers for graph names expose a particularly problematic serialization issue when serializing without a document base. That is, it isn't clear whether this will be viewed as valid in a quad-store: _:foo <http://example.org/bar> _:baz <#_graph:1> . The quad above is digitally signed in the Web Payments work without a base IRI. It is important that all processors that process it DO NOT add a base IRI, otherwise the signatures will no longer match the data in the quad store. However, <#_graph:1> isn't an absolute IRI and is thus invalid in the RDF model. So, the only solution that we can see is to use an absolute IRI that is meant to be interpreted as a document-local identifier: _:foo <http://example.org/bar> _:baz <graph:1> . The above works, but has the downside of needing a new IRI scheme, which none of us want, but hey, that's the best option we have right now beside this one: _:foo <http://example.org/bar> _:baz <_:graph1> . ... which is what we had been using for the past two years before realizing that RDF Concepts forbids that sort of thing. This would be the ideal solution if it weren't for the limitation imposed by the set of RDF documents that assign special meaning to "_:" and restrict its usage to be only for blank node identifiers and not also for document-local identifiers. -- manu -- Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny) Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. blog: Aaron Swartz, PaySwarm, and Academic Journals http://manu.sporny.org/2013/payswarm-journals/
Received on Thursday, 14 February 2013 03:25:06 UTC