W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-wg@w3.org > March 2011

Re: Turtle, Qurtle, Super-Turtle, N-Triple, N-Quads, Trig - BC and Scope

From: David Wood <david.wood@talis.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:01:54 -0500
Cc: <nathan@webr3.org>, RDF-WG <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <DD5D9DDF-9338-46E6-A9AB-5A86FF88A3C0@talis.com>
To: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
On Mar 2, 2011, at 14:32, Sandro Hawke wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 18:55 +0000, Nathan wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Okay, I'm lost, as to what's what and what is in scope, out of scope,
>> possible and not.
>> 
>> Is B.C. for turtle (data and consumers) to be maintained?
>> 
>> Are Quads to be adopted?
>>  - for turtle? (trig?)
>>  - for some kind of qurtle?
>>  - for some kind of super-turtle?
>>  - for n-triples?
>>  - would quads change the semantics? just the concepts?
>>  - quads = named g-box, or just some "spare" 4th param?
>> 
>> Is it even possible for us to do something not the same as current
>> turtle? (charter wise)
> 
> Yes.   Specifically, the charter says:
> 
>        Standardize the Turtle RDF Syntax.... Either that syntax or a
>        related syntax should also support multiple graphs and graph
>        stores.... This work should take into account the 14 January
>        2008 Turtle Syntax document, N3, TriG, and the SPARQL Query
>        Language syntax.

+1.

> 
> So far on this list I'm hearing near-consensus that:
> 
> 1.  This should be done as two separate languages with separate mime
> tipes.
> 
> 2.  The first, our standard version of Turtle, should be very
> conservative, inside the space of nearly all existing turtle documents
> and software.  All we're doing on this is dealing with tricky edge cases
> like "18."


This is all fine with me, but I hope we can explore the possibility of a single standardized Turtle with BC to the existing Turtle before we agree to split into two different standardized syntaxes.

Regards,
Dave
(co-chair hat ON)


> 
> 3.  We should have a different syntax, with a different mime-type, for
> handling [GRAPHS] in a Turtle-like language.
> 
> If that's true, the next big issue is whether this second syntax is (as
> Ivan proposed) just Turtle plus the minimum needed to handle extra
> graphs (TriG?), or whether (since we don't have nearly as much BC to
> worry about) we should take the opportunity to add some extra stuff
> here.
> 
> [the rest of your email has good stuff, but I don't have time to respond
> at the moment.]
> 
>    -- Sandro
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> If we can't change turtle, and can't do super-turtle or qurtle, why and
>> how can we even discuss graphs of any form?
>> 
>> Syntax sugar like ^ prefix, in scope?
>> 
>> Quoted Graphs, in scope?
>>  - if yes, what to they resolve to in the RDF semantics? how would that
>> work?
>> 
>> Graph Literals?
>>  - what's the difference between quoted graphs?
>> 
>> variables?
>> 
>> changes to the semantics?
>>  - if no, can changes like g-box be introduced without being in the
>> semantics?
>> 
>> changes to the concepts?
>>  - if yes, what about B.C. with RDF/XML? existing deployed data and
>> processors? how can they change but the semantics not?
>> 
>> align turtle with sparql?
>>  - if yes, how without variables, subject literals and all the other bits?
>> 
>> Sorry, I feel like we need to know what definitely cannot happen, what
>> definitely can and what's a grey area, for this WG.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Nathan
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Received on Wednesday, 2 March 2011 21:09:41 UTC

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