Re: [External] : example showing why rdf:state is essential

Hi Souri,

IMO the answer should be 3, because the whole point of this rdfs:states thing is to go beyond what reification (and rdf:reifies or whatever its name will end up to be) can provide, and interpret triple terms in the rdfs:range of rdfs:states as actually stated. That sure is beyond simple RDF entailment, but IIUC SPARQL-star can do it. 

Therefore, wouldn't it be more practical to define that any query runs over standard triples AND also triple terms that are the object of an rdfs:states relation? (maybe not always always, but triggered by a keyword like WITH QUALIFIED)? Wouldn't that perfectly capture the intention that triple terms in the rdfs:range of rdfs:states are assumed/expected to be true in the graph? Maybe call this SPARQL-star entailment? IIUC this is the approach taken in the original RDF* proposal, so given that RDF* had multiple implementations, including pretty high profile ones, it should be practical, right?

Best,
Thomas


Am 17. August 2024 05:53:01 MESZ schrieb Souripriya Das <souripriya.das@oracle.com>:
>Hi James,
>
>>> 1) Two-property example:
>>>
>>> # mapping from relational data: one-to-one, using RDF1.2-supported "asserted under id" tuples (that use the rdf:asserts property)
>>> :stint1 rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor :A )>> ; :start 1980 ; :end 1990 .
>>> :stint2 rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor :B )>> ; :start 1990 ; :end 2000 .
>>> :stint3 rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor :A )>> ; :start 2000 ; :end 2010 .
>>>
>>> # adding some unreliable info using RDF1.2-supported "reified under id" tuple (that use the rdf:reifies property)
>>> :stint4 rdf:reifies <<( :Bob :workedFor :B )>> ; :start 2010 ; :end 2020 .
>> under this proposal, what would be the result of the following sparql query
>
>> select (count (?for) as ?count)
>> where { :Bob :workedFor ?for }
>
>> were it applied to a graph which included those four statements?
>
>The result will be [ ?count = 0 ]. This is because no s-p-o triple was loaded and due to the "no side-effect" principle of this approach, no such s-p-o triple was automatically generated. In general, asserted id-s-p-o tuples do not have the side-effect of generating the corresponding s-p-o triples.
>
>Here are some related variations of the above query that will produce different results:
>- select (count(?for) as ?count) where { ?id rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor ?for )>> } .
>    RESULT: [ ?count = 3 ]
>- select (count(?for) as ?count) where { ?id rdf:reifies <<( :Bob :workedFor ?for )>> } .
>    RESULT: [ ?count = 1 ]
>- select (count(?for) as ?count) where { ?id ?p <<( :Bob :workedFor ?for )>> . FILTER( ?p IN (rdf:asserts, rdf:reifies) ) } .
>    RESULT: [ ?count = 4 ]
>
>Thanks,
>Souri.
>
>________________________________
>From: James Anderson <anderson.james.1955@gmail.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 16, 2024 8:43 PM
>To: RDF-star Working Group <public-rdf-star-wg@w3.org>
>Subject: Re: [External] : example showing why rdf:state is essential
>
>good morning;
>
>> On 16. Aug 2024, at 23:15, Souripriya Das <souripriya.das@oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> 1) Two-property example:
>>
>> # mapping from relational data: one-to-one, using RDF1.2-supported "asserted under id" tuples (that use the rdf:asserts property)
>> :stint1 rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor :A )>> ; :start 1980 ; :end 1990 .
>> :stint2 rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor :B )>> ; :start 1990 ; :end 2000 .
>> :stint3 rdf:asserts <<( :Bob :workedFor :A )>> ; :start 2000 ; :end 2010 .
>>
>> # adding some unreliable info using RDF1.2-supported "reified under id" tuple (that use the rdf:reifies property)
>> :stint4 rdf:reifies <<( :Bob :workedFor :B )>> ; :start 2010 ; :end 2020 .
>
>under this proposal, what would be the result of the following sparql query
>
>select (count (?for) as ?count)
>where { :Bob :workedFor ?for }
>
>were it applied to a graph which included those four statements?
>
>---
>james anderson | james@dydra.com | https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dydra.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!O59l_7OCGsyoa5ODrrwqZX8bOZsd3C4m0i87102jVP-7bTsuGnmqQhuZQZcTSaaEL0KpjNh47UVAcjmNyOqSRn9IwmfNyA$
>
>
>