- From: Antoine Zimmermann <antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr>
- Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2023 19:44:08 +0200
- To: public-rdf-star-wg@w3.org
Le 27/03/2023 à 19:40, Peter F. Patel-Schneider a écrit : > You mean the first clause in the satisfaction definition? My reading > is that this is only for triples in G, i.e., asserted triples, not > triples that are constituents of triples in G. Your reading is absolutely correct. At least, it is what I intended to define, modulo the various typos or mistakes I may have made in editing the HTML. --AZ > > peter > > > On 3/27/23 13:35, Franconi Enrico wrote: >> and I believe that the assertion comes from: >> (𝓘[α](/s/), 𝓘[α](/o/)) ∈ 𝓘_EXT (𝓘[α](/p/)) >> —e. >> >>> On 27 Mar 2023, at 19:34, Franconi Enrico <franconi@inf.unibz.it> wrote: >>> >>> I believe that it is not semantic predication, since it seems to me >>> that you map any non ground triple via \alpha directly to a resource, >>> regardless on the interpretation of its constituents. >>> —e. >>> >>>> On 27 Mar 2023, at 19:29, Peter F. Patel-Schneider >>>> <pfpschneider@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Are you sure? My reading is that this is semantic predication >>>> without assertion. Consider the RDF graph { (( s p o ) q n) }. >>>> >>>> A model of this graph is >>>> ( { t' s' o' n' }, { p', q', rs', rp', ro' }, JS, {}, JT, JEXT, rs', >>>> rp' ro' ) >>>> with JS mapping s to s', o to o', n to n', p to p', and o to o', >>>> JT( (s p o) ) = t', >>>> JEXT(q') = { ( t', n' ) } >>>> JEXT(p') = {} >>>> JEXT(rs') = { ( t', s' ) } >>>> JEXT(rp') = { ( t', p' ) } >>>> JEXT(ro') = { ( t', o' ) } >>>> >>>> Note that JS has to map to resources or properties as in the RDF 1.1 >>>> semantics. >>>> >>>> >>>> In this semantics there is no entailment from { (( s p o) q n } to { >>>> (s p o)} >>>> but there is entailment from { ((s p "42"^^xsd:int) q n) } to >>>> { ((s p "42"^^xsd:integer) q n) } if xsd:int and xsd:integer are >>>> recognized datatypes. >>>> >>>> peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 3/27/23 13:02, Franconi Enrico wrote: >>>>> I looked at it carefully. This seems to characterise more or less >>>>> the model theory of what I call syntactic predication, which is >>>>> more or less the current definition of <<.,.,.>>. >>>>> Some comments - tell me if I’m wrong. >>>>> Some difference I note is that a syntactically embedded triple >>>>> would still entail the truth of the triple itself, which probably >>>>> is not intended, and that the reification “implements” the full >>>>> semantic predication (ie., it would be fully transparent). >>>>> Moreover, there is still the open discussion about injectivity, and >>>>> the interoperation, if desired, with the TEP and/or with the full >>>>> semantic predication. >>>>> cheers >>>>> —e, >>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2023, at 18:08, Antoine Zimmermann >>>>>>> <antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 27/03/2023 à 17:37, Peter F. Patel-Schneider a écrit : >>>>>>> It would be useful to have some more explanation and some examples. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, it is brutally asserting the definitions and nothing else. >>>>>> >>>>>>> From my quick read this appears to be very lose to to using RDF >>>>>>> reification plus uniqueness of triples. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. The one benefit that I see is that it does not require >>>>>> introducing a vocabulary that would "reserve" some URIs. >>>>>> >>>>>>> In the Satisfaction section it appears that either a nor J[a] is >>>>>>> defined for blank nodes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Damn, I sometimes used bold face T as if it meant the set of all >>>>>> terms, while it is in fact defined as the set of RDF-star triples. >>>>>> >>>>>> α should be defined on "B ⋃ T ∖ Gnd". >>>>>> There is an unfortunate copy-paste error before the colon of the >>>>>> 1st paragraph in section "az-Satisfaction"("𝓘[α](t) = : T → Δ" >>>>>> should be "𝓘[α]: T → Δ" and the second item of the first bullet >>>>>> list of this section should have "B ⋃ T ∖ Gnd" instead of "T ⋃ Gnd". >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll correct that. >>>>>> >>>>>> --AZ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> peter >>>>>>>> On 3/27/23 09:09, Antoine Zimmermann wrote: >>>>>>>> This is mostly for the semantics task force. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wrote this: >>>>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.emse.fr%2F~zimmermann%2FW3C%2FRDF-star-semantics%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cfranconi%40inf.unibz.it%7C09d4655b373a419fd70608db2ee98da2%7C9251326703e3401a80d4c58ed6674e3b%7C0%7C0%7C638155352863073552%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sehgO9L6Rbb1bl7eXG1eLUgviH0xaNiZfisKxyBDVpg%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The idea is that embedded triples are interpreted as arbitrary >>>>>>>> resources and the resources denoted by the subject, predicate, >>>>>>>> and object of an embedded triple are connected (semantically) to >>>>>>>> the embedded-triple-resource via 3 properties that depend on the >>>>>>>> interpretation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now, please comment and destroy this proposal :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Antoine Zimmermann >>>>>> ISI - Institut Henri Fayol >>>>>> École des Mines de Saint-Étienne >>>>>> 158 cours Fauriel >>>>>> 42023 Saint-Étienne Cedex 2 >>>>>> France >>>>>> Tél:+33(0)4 77 42 66 03 >>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.emse.fr%2F~zimmermann%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cfranconi%40inf.unibz.it%7C09d4655b373a419fd70608db2ee98da2%7C9251326703e3401a80d4c58ed6674e3b%7C0%7C0%7C638155352863073552%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mwxac19SoxHc2%2BBKECecikKLfnlnJGKLq8EnMmqEhbk%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> > -- Antoine Zimmermann ISI - Institut Henri Fayol École des Mines de Saint-Étienne 158 cours Fauriel 42023 Saint-Étienne Cedex 2 France Tél:+33(0)4 77 42 66 03 https://www.emse.fr/~zimmermann/
Received on Monday, 27 March 2023 17:44:25 UTC