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Re: Deep copy

From: Holger Knublauch <holger@topquadrant.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:59:19 +1000
To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com>, Dimitris Kontokostas <kontokostas@informatik.uni-leipzig.de>
Cc: "public-rdf-sha." <public-rdf-shapes@w3.org>
Message-ID: <346df8c2-870c-b36a-309c-7bf483bdc070@topquadrant.com>
I have made another attempt at this sentence:

The value of <code>sh:path</code> of each validation result must point 
to a <a>SHACL property path</a> that <a 
href="#path-syntax">represents</a> an equivalent path like the one 
provided in the constraint.

Is that any better? If not, can you suggest better wording?

Holger



On 25/09/2016 7:35, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
> I'm assuming that you mean
>
> The value of sh:path of each validation result must point to a SHACL property
> path that is identical to the path provided in the constraint.
>
> This is actually worse.  Identical is not defined at all in the SHACL document
> and there is no pointer to an external meaning.  There is no useful guidance
> to be found in the RDF documents either.  Falling back on general principles
> would result in either identical nodes or identical graphs, both of which make
> sense in an RDF setting, but neither of which are what is wanted here, I think.
>
> The solution that is needed is to define a notion of equivalence/identicalness
> for SHACL property paths.  The section on property paths needs a complete
> rewrite anyway so defining identical/equivalent SHACL property paths can be
> part of this needed change.
>
> peter
>
>
>
>
> On 09/24/2016 07:29 AM, Dimitris Kontokostas wrote:
>> Thank you Peter,
>>
>> can you check if the latest version has any issues?
>>
>> Best,
>> Dimitris
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider
>> <pfpschneider@gmail.com <mailto:pfpschneider@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>      Your reasoning is incorrect.
>>
>>      It appears that what you mean by "deep copy" is somewhat related to its
>>      meaning in LISP.  The meaning of "deep copy" that most readers will know of is
>>      is meaning in current object-oriented languages, where all objects reachable
>>      by inter-object links are copied.  This would end up copying the entire
>>      portion of the RDF graph reachable from the head list node, which is not what
>>      is desired here.
>>
>>
>>      Peter F. Patel-Schneider
>>      Nuance Communications
>>
>>
>>      On 09/22/2016 10:38 PM, Holger Knublauch wrote:
>>      > On 23/09/2016 11:36, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>> Deep copy
>>      >>>
>>      >>> "a deep copy of sh:path as its sh:path" What is "deep copy" in this
>>      >> context?
>>      >>>      Comment (HK): I have attempted to clarify this here:
>>      >>
>>      https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/commit/d3f8f858f95b010d1f2a0e4681da203bcbfbc217
>>      <https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/commit/d3f8f858f95b010d1f2a0e4681da203bcbfbc217>
>>      >>
>>      >>>      Comment (kc): Unless "deep copy" has some pre-defined meaning that I
>>      >> am unaware of, I would suggest dropping it and saying: The value of sh:path
>>      >> of each validation result must copy all triples that are required by the <a
>>      >> href="#path-syntax">SHACL well-formed path syntax rules</a>from the
>>      >> <a>shapes graph</a> into the graph containing the validation results.
>>      >>>      Comment (HK): The first google match of "deep copy" is pretty
>>      close to
>>      >> what I wanted to express, so I believe the term should be familiar to many
>>      >> people and may be helpful for implementers. Also I had surrounded the term
>>      >> with "...". Anyway, I have no strong opinion and let others decide.
>>      >>
>>      >> The extra wording is helpful.  However, "deep copy" in
>>      >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_copying#Deep_copy
>>      <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_copying#Deep_copy> is different.  Either
>>      >> drop "deep copy" or point to an appropriate definition.
>>      >
>>      > Almost every English word is somehow overloaded with multiple meanings. I
>>      > believe your linked deep copy is quite appropriate for what I am trying to
>>      > express. If anyone has a suggestion on how to explain this better, please
>>      > provide a complete replacement of the sentence - just dropping the term does
>>      > not work.
>>      >
>>      > Thanks,
>>      > Holger
>>      >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dimitris Kontokostas
>> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig & DBpedia Association
>> Projects: http://dbpedia.org, http://rdfunit.aksw.org, http://aligned-project.eu
>> Homepage: http://aksw.org/DimitrisKontokostas
>> Research Group: AKSW/KILT http://aksw.org/Groups/KILT
>>
Received on Monday, 26 September 2016 06:59:53 UTC

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