- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:36:00 +0200
- To: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@webbackplane.com>
- CC: W3C RDFa task force <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4AB32A50.90407@w3.org>
Oops, sorry. I though Zakim sets the present list automatically, and I did not check... Added Ivan Mark Birbeck wrote: > Hi Ivan, > > I was also present. (I may need an alibi.) > > Regards, > > Mark > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote: >> Manu had to run to the HTML5 meeting, so I cleaned up the minutes. >> >> Here they are online: >> >> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html >> >> and the text version is below. >> >> Cheers >> >> Ivan >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> >> [1]W3C >> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/ >> >> RDF in XHTML Task Force >> >> 17 Sep 2009 >> >> [2]Agenda >> >> [2] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Sep/0147.html >> >> See also: [3]IRC log >> >> [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-irc >> >> Attendees >> >> Present >> Manu_Sporny, Steven_Pemberton, Ivan_Herman, Ben_Adida, >> Shane_McCarron >> >> Regrets >> Chair >> Ben_Adida >> >> Scribe >> Manu_Sporny >> >> Contents >> >> * [4]Contents >> + [5]Action Items >> o [6]XMLLiteral issue >> o [7]Charter related issues >> + [8]ISSUE-236: Clarify the meaning of "ignore" >> * [9]Summary of Action Items >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> <msporny> Scribe: Manu_Sporny >> >> <msporny> scribenick: msporny >> >> Previous: [10]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html >> >> [10] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html >> >> Action Items >> >> <benadida> manu: yes, call at 12pm eastern on HTML and RDFa FPWD >> >> manu: I'll be on that call >> >> <scribe> ACTION: Ben to put up JS code that implements the xmlns >> algorithm on "RDFa Implementors' Guide" wiki [recorded in >> [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [DONE] >> >> [11] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07 >> >> <benadida> --> >> [12]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-implementors-guide#JavaScript >> >> [12] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-implementors-guide#JavaScript >> >> ben: it will work in HTML5, but not XHTML5 >> >> <benadida> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on >> implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in >> [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] >> >> <scribe> ACTION: Ben to send Philip a "consensus of the task force" >> email that there is an issue, but not RDFa's. [recorded in >> [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [DONE] >> >> [14] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action06 >> >> XMLLiteral issue >> >> ben: The issue may not be done. >> ... This is about XMLLiteral c14n -- is it RDFa's job or the SPARQL >> processors job? >> >> ivan: Let's try to close this issue. >> ... SPARQL spec doesn't say that it does c14n >> ... what this boils down to is that the Test Cases, the SPARQL code >> that we use should have the canonicalized XML in it. >> ... the test cases are more liberal than they should be when it >> comes to c14n >> >> manu: I don't know if the spec is correct. >> >> ivan: Canonical XML states that we should insert the namespaces that >> are used in the literal, and nothing more. >> >> manu: We might give a different impression to implementers >> >> ivan: We might want to clarify things as well in a future editors >> spec. >> >> <scribe> ACTION: Manu to review test cases on default namespace >> preservation [recorded in >> [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [DONE] >> >> [15] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action04 >> >> <benadida> --> >> [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009S >> ep/0158.html >> >> [16] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Sep/0158.html >> >> manu: The test case issues are outlined in that e-mail >> ... the other issue is the c14n vs. proper XMLLiteral RDFa >> preservation. >> >> ben: Yes, there is an issue here and the issue is slightly larger >> than RDFa. >> >> ivan: The SPARQL group are considering an official errata for RDF to >> address this issue. >> ... This is an issue that came about years ago, but we need to deal >> with it. >> >> ben: So, what is the path forward. >> >> <benadida> [17]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-wg-charter >> >> [17] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-wg-charter >> >> manu: Accept c14n XMLLiteral definition and accept that we won't be >> able to preserve namespaces for RDFa in XMLLiterals >> >> Charter related issues >> >> <scribe> ACTION: Ben to create RDFa WG charter template. [recorded >> in [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] >> [DONE] >> >> [18] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action04 >> >> ivan: Let's put the charter off for 6-8 weeks. We're not under huge >> pressure to do that. >> >> ben: I don't think we should submit the charter now, but we >> shouldn't delay it. >> >> <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss schedule >> >> shane: I'm the one who pushed schedule because these things take >> time. >> >> ivan: If we do this in November, this shouldn't be an issue. >> >> <benadida> msporny: sam ruby and doug schepers have offered to host >> an RDFa TF in HTML and SVG WGs. >> >> <benadida> ben: I'm not convinced that this is a good idea yet. >> >> ivan: A Task Force between two working groups work well when two >> groups are friendly with each other. >> ... It's also more administration overhead. >> ... I'd prefer the RDFa Core work to stay in SWD. >> >> <markbirbeck> Should also add that it works when the two groups are >> complementary to each other. >> >> ivan: There are things that we may plan to do that have nothing to >> do with HTML. >> >> <markbirbeck> Which is not the case here. >> >> ben: One thing we should try to steer clear of anything that doesn't >> follow W3C process. >> ... We should be collaborating with HTML WG. >> ... We should strive to be true to W3C process. >> >> ivan: Let's wait and see how the HTML+RDFa FPWD works out. If it >> works, then that would be best. >> >> ISSUE-236: Clarify the meaning of "ignore" >> >> ben: We depend on rel with a bad value and the absence of rel as >> being different. >> ... We do not do the same for @typeof. >> >> Ivan can you scribe? >> >> I can clean up the minutes afterwards >> >> <ivan> scribenick: ivan >> >> mark: when I made all the changes to cleanup curie processing, then >> I might have missed this >> >> shane: wait... >> >> mark: I think the discussion on the list is pretty good >> >> shane: ben said rel="" and rel="rubbish" is not the same thing >> >> mark: if I completely remove rel from an element, then there is no >> hanging stuff kick in >> ... if there is a rel, then the mechanism does kick in >> >> shane: the real issue is with datatypes >> ... and with typeof >> ... typeof does not have a special behaviour for typeof="" >> >> mark: the issue does originate from the datatype handling >> ... during the course of discussion I discovered that typeof does >> not behave like we meant it >> ... there are two issues: (1) datatypes and (2) typeof >> >> shane: our intent is clear >> ... and all implementations that passed the tests did it like we >> intended >> ... we can put the two phrases into the places where it needs it >> then we are done >> >> manu: do we feel that we have a clear text that we can put in? Did >> we check that against the test cases? >> ... there might have to add some new test cases >> ... i do not know what my parser would do... >> >> mark: the key thing is that it creates a b node >> >> shane: the final piece here is where jeni is incorrect >> ... if there is typeof, it generates a bnode, but that one is not >> used as a subject of another triple >> >> mark: but it can complete hanging triples >> >> <ShaneM> Jeni says in an email: >> >> <ShaneM> In the case of >> >> <ShaneM> <p xmlns:ex="[19]http://example.org/" >> about="[20]http://example.com/" rel="ex:rel3"> >> >> [19] http://example.org/ >> [20] http://example.com/ >> >> <ShaneM> <span property="bogus:bogus" content="Content 3"> >> >> <ShaneM> <span about="[21]http://example.net/">Test 3</span> >> >> [21] http://example.net/ >> >> <ShaneM> </span> >> >> <ShaneM> </p> >> >> <ShaneM> by the same argument, we should create: >> >> <ShaneM> Default graph: >> >> <ShaneM> <[22]http://example.com/> <[23]http://example.org/rel3> >> _:a . >> >> [22] http://example.com/%3E >> [23] http://example.org/rel3%3E >> >> <ShaneM> Graph A: >> >> <ShaneM> _:a bogus:bogus "Content 3" . >> >> mark: the key thing is to preserve the structure, the hierarchy, >> even if the gaps are not filled in >> >> shane: what I pasted in is the bit where she is wrong >> >> mark: I will double check that >> ... the mere presence the property will complete the hanging triple >> ... so what she says is correct >> >> shane: I think that the spec says explicitly that the bnode should >> be used only if it is used down the line >> >> mark: the spec says that graph A may be generated but it is not >> required >> ... the question is whether the first triple should be generated >> ... ie whether the hanging triple should be completed >> >> shane: I do not feel this is what the spec says >> >> mark: but there may be a mistake; the whole point of the default >> graph idea is to make such issues valid >> ... maybe people can have a read of the spec, I think that triple >> should be generated >> ... very end of step 4 with the skip element flag >> ... and that is reused at point 10 >> ... maybe people should look at it with their own implementation >> >> manu: meeting adjurned >> >> Summary of Action Items >> >> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' >> guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in >> [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] >> >> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to create RDFa WG charter template. [recorded in >> [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] >> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to put up JS code that implements the xmlns >> algorithm on "RDFa Implementors' Guide" wiki [recorded in >> [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] >> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to send Philip a "consensus of the task force" >> email that there is an issue, but not RDFa's. [recorded in >> [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] >> [DONE] ACTION: Manu to review test cases on default namespace >> preservation [recorded in >> [28]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] >> >> [25] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action04 >> [26] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07 >> [27] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action06 >> [28] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action04 >> >> [End of minutes] >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> >> Minutes formatted by David Booth's [29]scribe.perl version 1.135 >> ([30]CVS log) >> $Date: 2009/09/17 16:11:05 $ >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> [29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm >> [30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ >> >> -- >> >> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >> mobile: +31-641044153 >> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html >> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf >> > > > -- Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
Received on Friday, 18 September 2009 06:36:38 UTC