- From: Hausenblas, Michael <michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at>
- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 23:04:31 +0200
- To: "public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf.w3.org" <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
- Cc: "SWD Working Group" <public-swd-wg@w3.org>
All, The record of yesterday's RDFa Task Force telecon [1] is ready for review. [1] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html Topics 1. Action Items 2. New Test Cases Proposed by Ivan for @instanceof 3. Is Primer destined for Note or Rec? 4. non-prefixed values of @rel RESOLUTION: to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax. Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [NEW] ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [NEW] ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [NEW] ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [PENDING] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [DONE] ACTION: Ben to add implementations page to RDFa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [DONE] ACTION: Ben to remind the WG reviewers about review for FtF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [DONE] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [DONE] ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [DONE] ACTION: Shane to send a link to new editor's draft to Ben [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] Full copy follows below. Cheers, Michael _____________________________________________________________ W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-10-04, 15:00 UTC 4 Oct 2007 Agenda [1] See also: IRC log [2], previous 2007-09-27 [3] [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0023. html [2] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-irc.html [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html Attendees Present Mark Birbeck, Steven Pemberton, Shane McCarron, Manu Sporny, Ben Adida, Ralph Swick, Michael Hausenblas Regrets Simone Onofri Chair Ben Scribe mhausenblas, ralphs Contents Topics 1. Action Items 2. New Test Cases Proposed by Ivan for @instanceof 3. Is Primer destined for Note or Rec? 4. non-prefixed values of @rel Summary of Action Items Action Items -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary <scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben to add implementations page to RDFa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [DONE] Ben: I started to move stuff <scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben to remind the WG reviewers about review for FtF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [DONE] <scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Shane to send a link to new editor's draft to Ben [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [DONE] Ben: I fwd link to SWD <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES] <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [DONE] <benadida> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [DONE] -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0038. html report <Steven> I edited the cruft from last week's minutes Ben: Change the TC accordingly <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES] <scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES] New Test Cases Proposed by Ivan for @instanceof -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0001 Ivan's TC proposal Michael: I have looked them over and they appear to be reasonable Ralph: I encouraged Ivan to propose these so we had test cases that document our decision w.r.t. subject of @instanceof Michael: I'm only being cautious about the process -- want the TF to discuss adding them before we review them ... Fabien's proposed test cases are more complex Mark: I'd prefer to review the proposed tests after Michael has uploaded them to the test suite archive <scribe> ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] Michael: Fabien's proposed tests are not atomic; they're quite complex Shane: do we have a process for more complex cases? <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0069. html Michael: the tests are nice but complex <mhausenblas> http://sw.joanneum.at/rdfa/rdfadebug/index.php <mhausenblas> http://sw.joanneum.at/rdfa/rdfadebug/index.php?preparedSelURL=http%3A%2F %2Fwww-sop.inria.fr%2Fedelweiss%2Fpeople%2FFabien.Gandon%2Fdocs%2Fw3c%2F rdfa%2Ftests%2F2007%2F09%2F10%2F0047.xhtml Ralph: Fabien's proposed 0046 with multiple space-separated properties seems the shorted possible test; what's the problem? <scribe> ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] Ben: Let us review the new TC (Fabien's and Ivan's) together next time Is Primer destined for Note or Rec? Ben: AFAIU Primer is a note and Syntax goes REC-Track Steven: Second that ... why having a rec on non-normative stuff Ben: Tom asked for SWD regarding this issue Ralph: Most SW TR package have this ... REC Track has a precise definition [[http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html]] scribe: so Steven is right in saying that there may be more work with it Steven: May risk that the Primer may hold up the whole package Ben: Just want to make sure that it si no problem for SWD WG Ralph: eg GRDDL Primer is a note ... so might be no reason to push the Primer through REC Track Ben: So we have Primer, Syntax, UC, TC ... Syntax goes REC Track ... Primer and UC are notes <benadida> PROPOSE to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax. +1 <benadida> RESOLVED <benadida> RESOLUTION: to bring syntax as rec track, primer and use cases as notes, and test cases as supporting doc for syntax. non-prefixed values of @rel Ben: Proposed the HTML URI Mark: We seem to have agreed on a pre-processing step ... takes out null values . and puts them into some NS TBD scribe: I'd like to see them put in a kind of general space Ben: The goal is that for people that use DC conventions ... which are not RDFa compatible, to make them work ... ignoring non-prefixed ... so I do favour the pre-processing Mark: Agree Manu: What does it mean semantically Mark: When undefined, certain use cases might be problematic Ben: When writing the RDFa extractor - what is the instruction for non-prefixed ... we should focus the discussion ... identify what is part of the RDFa spec Mark: Right - look into it Ben: It is ok to say that @rel only excepts prefixed values ... @instanceof does not have this legacy problems Ralph: For the record. What is the proposal? Ben: To ignore unprefixed @rels ... after pre-processing <RalphS> Mark: the preprocessor will expand the reserved words in the HTML namespace <RalphS> ... a processor might also have a DC preprocessing step Ben: Proposal that RDFa defines a generic pre-processing step ... the pre-processing turns known attributes into prefixed ones <RalphS> Steven: for @rel and @property both? Ben: the actual processing ignores all unprefixed ones <RalphS> Ben: @property is one we've added <RalphS> Mark: it would be nice to be able to use <span xmlns="...foaf..." rel="knows" /> shorthand <RalphS> Ben: but that modifies the host language namespace Ben: being open for other pre-processing steps RalphS: So @rel/@rev unprefixed after pre-processing are ignored? ... we should be careful wrt the HTML host language ... reserved words are expanded ... so RDFa extractors can rely on that Ralph: To state something undefined is problematic ... regarding common usage Ben: For example take profile in the head <RalphS> Ralph: saying "undefined" for a feature that users may come to depend on in some implementation will lead to interoperability problems. Ben: so we should not overwrite it Mark: There are two end of the scale ... just to ensure to make things available ... Might be a solution to put these triple into a non-default graph Ralph: Layering issues, here ... whatever happens in the pre-processing step is up to the application Mark: range from ignored to undefined Ralph: ignored means that pre-processing should have been done else Ben: Towards a proposal ... ... work with buckets ... define which goes into what Manu: Fine when application-specific pre-processing is done that generates extra triples <RalphS> Manu: suggest handling unprefixed values in the same way as "extra triples" -- just say that if these generate triples, they are not in the default graph Mark: Shouldn't we be more specific ... hard to tell if a document is valid, etc. Ben: IMHO it is not a RDFa extractor issue Mark: It is confusing not to state it explicitely <RalphS> Ben: if an application generates extra triples, whether they're from unprefixed @rel values or not, they get handled the same way. Don't need to restate this multiple times. Mark: Just as we defined it at CURIE's Ben: Enable developer to extract more triples in a defined way Ben: We seem to have a resolution ... non-prefixed @rel/@rev do not generate triples <RalphS> ("in the default graph") <benadida> PROPOSE: @rel and @rev values that are non-prefixed and not in the XHTML reserved words do not generate triples in the default graph <RalphS> +1 +1 <msporny> +1 <Steven> ok Mark: For consistency: @property the same? <Steven> ok with me Ben: Separate issue <Steven> Consistency is important Ralph: The issue with @rel/@rev is that there is already a usage <Steven> and @property is new <RalphS> Mark: property="foo" will, by CURIE rules, go into the 'vocab' (i.e. non-default) graph <RalphS> ... must write property=":foo" to use the in-scope namespace <RalphS> ... according to the current Syntax document <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-rdfa-syntax-20070927/#s_curies Ben: Need to continue this discussion, based on the goal Mark: Acknowledge legacy usage of @rel values <RalphS> [I'm interested in the new input from Manu that having different rules for @rel values vs. @property values will be overly confusing] <benadida> ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] <RalphS> [I really want @property="foo" to use the in-scope namespace, but I'm interested in more discussion especially from Manu] Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [NEW] ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [NEW] ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite archive [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [NEW] ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [PENDING] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [DONE] ACTION: Ben to add implementations page to RDFa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [DONE] ACTION: Ben to remind the WG reviewers about review for FtF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [DONE] ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [DONE] ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [DONE] ACTION: Shane to send a link to new editor's draft to Ben [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [End of minutes] _____________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------- Michael Hausenblas, MSc. Institute of Information Systems & Information Management JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA <office> phone: +43-316-876-1193 (fax:-1191) e-mail: michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at web: http://www.joanneum.at/iis/ <private> mobile: +43-660-7621761 web: http://www.sw-app.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------
Received on Friday, 5 October 2007 21:04:49 UTC