[RDFa] Meeting record: 2007-07-12 RDF-in-XHTML telecon

All,

The record of the today's RDF-in-XHTML telecon is available [1].
A full text snapshot follows below.

Cheers,
	Michael

[1] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes


Topics 
 1. Action Item Review 
 2. @href/@resource everywhere 
 3. @class/@role/@new_attribute 
 4. @rel everywhere 
 5. @src 

Summary of Action Items 

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at
w3.org) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when
using @content [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]
[PENDING] ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben make a scribe schedule [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and META appear
only in HEAD with no changes to content model [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

________________________________________________________________________

                       W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF
12 Jul 2007

Agenda [1]

See also: IRC log [2], previous 2007-07-05 [3]

[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0080.
html
[2] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-irc
[3] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html

Attendees
 Present 
  Ben Adida, Michael Hausenblas, Ralph Swick, Steven Pemberton, Shane
McCarron, Mark Birbeck 
 Regrets 
  Simone Onofri 
 Chair 
  Ben 
 Scribe 
  Michael 

Contents
 Topics 
  1. Action Item Review 
  2. @href/@resource everywhere 
  3. @class/@role/@new_attribute 
  4. @rel everywhere 
  5. @src 

 Summary of Action Items 


<ShaneM> I am going to be on the call... btu I expect I will be on the
road when doing it. sry

<Steven> ok

<Steven> When you have time

<Steven> I need advice on what exactly to do to convert an html doc to
mhtml

<Steven> (for your system)

<Steven> hi

<scribe> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

Action Item Review
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

<RalphS> previous 2007-07-05

<ShaneM> that chop is likely from ben's IP phone

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben make a scribe schedule [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
[DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and
META appear only in HEAD with no changes to content model [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben/Ralph to figure out the
RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at w3.org) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to look into Science Commons use case
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Elias to send email to list with use case
from IBM [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[CONTINUES]

<RalphS> Scribe schedule

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax
when using @content [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Shane investigate the @xml:base validation
issue [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [CONTINUES]

@href/@resource everywhere
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0059

Ben: XHTML 1.1: it would be useful to have an attrib
... issues: clickable

Steven: XHTML 2 all URL need to be navigable
... but not the same as clickable (as <a>)
... I opt for dereference URL

Mark: Cf. to RDF URIRef

Ralph: Mark's interpretation might be too strict
... support Steven's POV
... compare with CSS-aware client

Mark: If information resource is derefable, it should be used
... isbn-URN

Ben: Ok, let's take the book example
... has an URN (ISBN)

Ralph: Try to understand Mark's POV
... see example <span href="urn:...">

Mark: You could create UI for user, but need the metadata
... what is the default behaviour

Ralph: A non-metadata client might not have a default behaviour

Mark: Example: Page with hundreds of books
... linking to, say, amazon
... with how many clickable links you end up?

Ralph: Interpreting Steven, it depends on the client to figure out what
to do
... with a link (derefable)

Mark: Think about smart browser
... but what if there is nothing to go

Ralph: The concern might be

that the author has no way to determine the way

scribe: a user might follow the link

Mark: We deal with RDF resources vs. navigable links

Steven: Subject and Objects are intersting things to follow

Mark: currently only object

Ralph: Any time there is a URL
... display context sensitive menu that allows for exploring a URL(I)
content

Ben: So there may be cases for @resource

Mark: Don't mind @href everywhere
... but different layers (triple layer, render, etc.)
... Misuse is possible, but that might not be a problem

Ben: Try to find an agreement
... @href should be everywhere
... but also need @resource

Mark: One step at a time
... @href might need to become derefable

Ralph: A bit confused ...
... in Mark's mail @href and @resource not the same semantics wrt RDFa

Mark: In XHTML 2 context not a problem
... we can't enforce it in XHTML 1
... RDFa is about RDF - in (X)HTML
... not change the behaviour of host language

Ralph: But we can define how to behave wrt @resource

Mark: What I mean is, we try here to add functionality in the UA

Ralph: Have a foot in both fields (RDF and HTML)

ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

@class/@role/@new_attribute
I'd opt for a new attrib (liked @instanceOf)

Ben: Preferences for new attribute?

Ralph: No strong opinion

<RalphS> Ralph: from the pure RDF perspective, @href and @resource may
have identical semantics. We can also say that we do not expect UAs to
go to great lengths to make @resource "navigable". I would not, however,
_prohibit_ UAs from making @resource have some interface representation

Steven: happy with new attrib

Ralph: new attrib would be ok

Ben: Looks like I'm the only one who prefers @class

<RalphS> Ralph: architecturally, I believe a new attribute is the right
choice

Ralph: Architectural POV would be good

<RalphS> ... however I respect the well-adopted precedents in the
community

Ben: Might cause problems
... Agreement to have new attrib

<benadida> PROPOSAL: use a new attribute, not class or role, for
syntactic sugar for rdf:type, name to be determined on the mailing list

BEN: Any oppostion?

<benadida> RESOLVED, with Ben's reservation regarding changing away from
@class

@rel everywhere
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0057

Ben: Let's split
... for bNode resolved

Mark: Can live with @rel everywhere
... but 'political' level
... with all new attribs

Ben: So let's keep @rel
... striping discussed separatly
... remaining issues: what happens when you have @href and @rel
everywhere

Ralph: Fallback wrt HTML 5

Ben: Will be addresses, though wide ranging

Shane: Example what @rel without @href means

Steven: New validator is available next week, AFAIK

@src
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0041

<benadida> <img about="s" rel="p" src="o" class="t">

<benadida> <img about="s" rel="p" src="o" instanceof="t">

<benadida> s p o

<benadida> o rdf:type t

+1

Ben: As <img> has no content, this causes no prob
... same for <object>
... <script> may have no content either

Ralph: Why it isn't [s rdf:type t]

Mark: Because we are talking about the img

Michael: This might be a bit too much of syntactic sugar, confusing
(new) RDFa users

<benadida> <div rel="foo:bar" instanceof="foo:Baz">

<benadida> <div about="#a" rel="foo:bar" instanceof="foo:Baz">

Mark: Cf. to the 'old way' with link in div (bNode)

<benadida> <#a> foo:bar [rdf:type foo:Baz]

Mark: Nothing stops us writing it all longhand in the examples

Ben: Can we agree on <img> @src behaves like @rel

Ralph: Might need to study this deeper

Ben: We making good progress

Michael: TC TC TC :)

Ralph: F2F SWD-WG action
... Nov TechPlenary meeting
... but as of our schedule, we might not need a F2F, there
... if so then in the context of the XHTML 2 WG

<Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to mention f2f

Ben: Thanks everyone ... till next week

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben/Ralph to figure out the RDFa-GRDDL-profile URI (at
w3.org) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/06/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark get input from Joost on @HREF everywhere
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when
using @content [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]
[PENDING] ACTION: Shane investigate the @xml:base validation issue
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben make a scribe schedule [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben summarize the state of @rel everywhere [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to send to mailing list PROPOSE: LINK and META appear
only in HEAD with no changes to content model [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
 
[End of minutes]



----------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
 Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
 JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
 Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA

 <office>
    phone: +43-316-876-1193 (fax:-1191)   
   e-mail: michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at
      web: http://www.joanneum.at/iis/ 

 <private>
   mobile: +43-660-7621761
      web: http://www.sw-app.org/
----------------------------------------------------------

Received on Thursday, 12 July 2007 20:30:56 UTC