- From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:55:49 +0200
- To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes
RDF Data Access Working Group
13 Jun 2006
See also: [2]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Regrets
Libby, Souri, SteveH, JeenB, DanC
Chair
KendallC
Scribes
FredZ, ericP, EliasT
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Convene, take roll, recruit scribe, next meeting
2. [5]New meeting time?
3. [6]action items
4. [7]namespace of builtin functions
5. [8]ericp to discuss 3-interpretation email
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________________
<kendallclark> Scribe: FredZ
<kendallclark>
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/014
0.html
Convene, take roll, recruit scribe, next meeting
<AndyS> The minutes seem to have carried over DONE actions
PROPOSED: to accept [11]Minutes from last meeting with [12]corrections
as a true record of the last meeting
APPROVED
<AndyS> At risk for next time: AndyS (need to be elsewhere from
15:00-15:30 local/UTC+1)
New meeting time?
action items
next meeting: probably 14:30Z (10:30 eastern US), scribe:
Elias-scribe-for-life-T
<kendallclark> PROPOSED: to change the DAWG telecon time to 14:30 UTC,
starting 20 June and from thence on
<kendallclark> RESOLVED
<kendallclark> ACTION: [CLOSED] AndyS to resend a proposal ([13]sent)
to solve equality testing over email [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing over
email, ericP and patH to give eyes. [CONTINUES] [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
ACTION: EliasT to submit mime-type registration for json-results.
[CONTINUED] [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >
[CONTINUED] [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
ACTION: EricP to send mail about 3-part interpretation of optionals
[DONE] [18]3 interpretations for OPTIONALs (and UNIONS)
ACTION: KendallC to tell Martin Soto that we're considering his
comments [CONTINUED] [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
ACTION: PatH to kibbitz with EricP about 3-part interpretation of
optionals [WITHDRAWN] [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown datatypes)
[DONE] [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
ACTION: LeeF to fix mimetype in json-reults [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09]
namespace of builtin functions
<kendallclark>
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/009
4.html
<AndyS> [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/
-> [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/ XPath namespace
document
<AndyS> Test case: op:add =>
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions#add ??
<kendallclark> Presumably EricP's fixes include: isIRIis sparql:isIRI
<kendallclark> isURI sparqlisURI
<kendallclark> since they are typo'd
<LeeF> could someone scratch out the current proposal, please?
<kendallclark> would be nice for the record too
note [27]proposal
ericp to discuss 3-interpretation email
-> [28]http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org 3
interpretations of OPTIONALs
<EliasT> [29]http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
<AndyS> It is also
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/015
8
<LeeF> I think there's an implicit "else" in there.
ericP: if variable is introduced in one OPTIONAL and then appears in a
second OPTIONAL, then bindings from one do not constrain the other,
they only enhance it
<EliasT> i.e. + :a cc:license "steal this book" .
ericP: this doesn't happen "normally" because OPTIONAL is a binary
operator and text near OPTIONAL specifies [left-associativity] for
OPTIPONALs without other triples in between
ericP: but adding more triples ends up with the factorial scenario
FredZ: One of the points from the Chile paper is that SPARQL doesn't
explicitly consider precedence in main body of text - precedence is
implicit in the grammar.
FredZ: <something else about disconnect between semantics and
presentation of semantics in document>
ericP: think we should first decide how this SHOULD work before
discussing how to present how it works
<AndyS> "Better spec" is bound by the length of the charter
<kendallclark> Yes. But we have to answer and satisfy reasonable,
novel claims about the formal semantics of our language. That seems
unavoidable.
<AndyS> defn of LEXICAL assumes hard nulls ?
<kendallclark> My org -- not speaking here as chair -- strongly wants
a compositional semantics for SPARQL. Lexical order sensitivity is a
bad thing in many ways, IMO.
<AndyS> FredZ: reorder of peers should not matter
<AndyS> FredZ: nesting of structures may indicate order
<kendallclark> And we'd really like to be able to optimize RDF
queries.
ericP: does the spec need to deal with commutativity and associativity
of operators and the equivalences that fall out therefrom?
FredZ: SQL spec does not
ericP: Would like to define eveyrthing in term of lexical order and
let lexical indepdence fall out in some cases from logical properties
of operators (but the spec says nothing about these clevernesses)
<EliasT> AndyS: Our users today would like queries such as: given a
user, give me a name, else, give me an email, else, give me a nick.
ie. {A OPT B OPT C OPT D} which depends on ordering.
<kendallclark> Does lexical ordering push us further away from
compositional semantics?
<patH> Probably yes, Kendall.
<kendallclark> *gah*
<AndyS> If it does, it is only if a variable is mentioned multiple
times.
<patH> Or, to put it Eric's way, compositionality is buried in the
clever optimizations.
<kendallclark> I really dislike that intuitively, which is worth very
little, but there you go.
<patH> Interesting that the nasty case (use same variable several
places) is exactly the case that breaks simpl entailment for OWL.
<FredZ> ?x ?y ?z . OPTIONAL (...) ?a ?b ?c
<EliasT> nay
<FredZ> keep going
<kendallclark> scribe: EliasT
when?
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about xpath operators
right now?
<AndyS> I have an idea I'd like to try out on you
<kendallclark> PROPOSED: To adjourn
<kendallclark> RESOLVED :>
<ericP> ADJOURNED
<AndyS> OPT( { ?x ?y ?z } , ... ) AND ?a ?b ?c
<LeeF> FredZ, the first param to OPTIONAL is a mandatory triple
<LeeF> the second param is the optional pattern
<patH> see [31]http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim
<LeeF> A OPTIONAL { B } translates to OPT(A, B)
<FredZ> x? y? z? OPTIONAL {?A ?B ?C} ?p ?q ?r
<LeeF> this operationally means:
<LeeF> AND(OPT({?x ?y ?z}, {?A ?B ?C}), {?p ?q ?r})
<AndyS> a/b/c
<AndyS> (a/b)/c
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: LeeF to fix mimetype in json-reults [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing
over email, ericP and patH to give eyes. [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: EliasT to submit mime-type registration for
json-results. [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >
[recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: KendallC to tell Martin Soto that we're considering
his comments [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing
over email [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown
datatypes) [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
[DROPPED] ACTION: PatH to kibbitz with EricP about 3-part
interpretation of optionals [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [40]scribe.perl version 1.127
([41]CVS log)
$Date: 2006/06/16 08:49:10 $
References
1. http://www.w3.org/
2. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-irc
3. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#agenda
4. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item01
5. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item02
6. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item03
7. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item04
8. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item05
9. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#ActionSummary
10. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0140.html
11. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0140
12. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0156
13. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0119
14. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01
15. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02
16. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03
17. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04
18. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
19. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06
20. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07
21. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08
22. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09
23. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0094.html
24. http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/
25. http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/
26. http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions#add
27. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060616071155.GA24910@w3.org
28. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
29. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
30. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0158
31. http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim
32. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09
33. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02
34. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03
35. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04
36. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06
37. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01
38. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08
39. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07
40. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
41. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
--
-eric
home-office: +1.617.395.1213 (usually 900-2300 CET)
cell: +81.90.6533.3882
(eric@w3.org)
Feel free to forward this message to any list for any purpose other than
email address distribution.
Received on Friday, 16 June 2006 08:54:22 UTC