- From: Janne Saarela <janne.saarela@profium.com>
- Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:08:07 +0200
- To: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4370CD67.7030306@profium.com>
RDF Data Access Working Group http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ Tuesday 2005-11-08 14:30-16:30 UTC log: http://www.w3.org/2005/11/08-dawg-irc chair: DanC scribe: JanneS 1. Convene, take roll, review agenda Attending: Jeen Broekstra Dan Connolly Lee Feigenbaum Enrico Franconi Steve Harris Pat Hayes Eric Prud'hommeaux Jos de Roo Janne Saarela Andy Seaborne Elias Torres Regrets: KendallC, BijanP, LibbyM Minutes of RDF DAWG telcon 2005-11-01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0145.html ACCEPTED without changes Next meeting: 15 Nov, scribe: ?? --- 2. Next Meeting Will have one next week 15 Nov 3. Security Considerations ACTION: EricP to respond to "Security Considerations" DONE ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself CONTINUED 4. QL conformance ACTION: EricP to introduce conformance section and add conformance wording where appropriate. 5. toward SPARQL QL updated WD ACTION Jeen: address 2005-08-30T19:01:08Z from jagannathan.srinivasan ACTION EricP: mail the WG asking about URIs for functions, re comment 2005-10-26T22:08:10Z from r.newman http://www.w3.org/mid/8CC73085-F6B6-4F56-91B8-8940E55B1648@reading.ac.uk ACTION DanC: propose changes-from-lc section 6. issues#rdfSemantics Lengthy discussion whether current LC spec is sufficient or if changes are truly needed. ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... DONE ACTION: PatH to review The Semantics of SPARQL DONE --- Adjourned at 16:03 UTC, included the following agenda items with all action items as continued, please reply back to these minutes if you consider you've done these. 7. issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments CONTINUED ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints CONTINUED ACTION: KendallC to propose revised WSDL descripton of SPARQL protocol CONTINUED 8. Toward CR ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec CONTINUED 9. protocol testing update ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results CONTINUED 10. test suite maintenance ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in [32]09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16] CONTINUED ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple CONTINUED ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in [33]commentor's message CONTINUED ACTION ericP: to update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym CONTINUED --- Next meeting: 15-November-2005 at 14:30 UTC. -- Janne Saarela <janne.saarela at profium.com> Profium, Lars Sonckin kaari 12, 02600 Espoo, Finland Internet: http://www.profium.com
<DanC> Zakim, next item <Zakim> agendum 2. "next meeting" taken up [from DanC] * DanC hopes ericp will call in soon * DanC wonders if elias would consider chairing <DanC> Zakim, next item <Zakim> agendum 3. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC] <DanC> agenda + next meeting, try again * Zakim notes agendum 11 added <DanC> Subject: [OK?] Re: SPARQL: Security Considerations <DanC> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:46:00 -0500 (07:46 CST) <DanC> ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [CONTINUES] <DanC> Ericp's is done * RRSAgent records action 1 <DanC> Zakim, next item <Zakim> agendum 4. "QL Conformance" taken up [from DanC] <JanneS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0102.html <DanC> Zakim, take up item 5 <Zakim> agendum 5. "toward SPARQL QL updated WD" taken up [from DanC] <LeeF> Chair: DanC <LeeF> Scribe: JanneS <DanC> Zakim, take up item 6 <Zakim> agendum 6. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC] <JanneS> DanC: if you say 'simply entails' it matches with current design, does it? <JanneS> DanC: bnodes in the query act likes variables (can be bound to different nodes) <ericP> zakim, please dial ericp=617.2 <Zakim> I am sorry, ericP; I do not know a number for ericp=617.2 <ericP> zakim, please dial ericp-617.2 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made <Zakim> +Ericp <DanC> Zakim, drop ericp <Zakim> Ericp is being disconnected <ericP> zakim, please drip ericP <Zakim> -Ericp <Zakim> I don't understand 'please drip ericP', ericP <JanneS> Enrico: alternative to doing skolemization would be current design and the subgraph matching people co <JanneS> s/co/do/ * DanC wonders if "our latest document" is bound in everybody else's context <ericP> zakim, please dial ericp-617.2 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made <Zakim> +Ericp <ericP> zakim, please drop ericP <Zakim> Ericp is being disconnected <Zakim> -Ericp <SteveH> Zakim, mute me <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted * kendall has joined #dawg <AndyS_> Home: Input: <a> <b> <c> . Simple entails _:a1 <b> <c> (and many other triples) so { ?x ?y ?z } gives what? _:a1 <b> <c>?? <AndyS_> s/Home/Discussion/ <AndyS_> http://www.inf.unibz.it/krdb/w3c/sparql/ <franconi> http://www.inf.unibz.it/krdb/w3c/sparql/ <Zakim> +Ericp <ericP> yehaw!!! <DanC> -> http://www.inf.unibz.it/krdb/w3c/sparql/ The Semantics of SPARQL 2 Nov 2005 * ericP my mike is more sensitive than i'm used to <LeeF> :jon :plays :baseball <LeeF> _:a :plays :baseball <JanneS> DanC: john plays Baseball, someone plays Baseball -> lean: John plays baseball. Only one answer to (?x ?y ?z) <JanneS> Enrico: 3 levels: 1. current design where the original graph doesn't include redundancy <JanneS> 2. no redundancy at all <JanneS> 3. added redundancy <ericP> <John> <plays> <baseball>. <ericP> _:x <plays> <baseball>. <ericP> _:y <plays> <baseball>. <ericP> . <ericP> PatH: a non-lean graph could be a subgraph of a lean graph <ericP> (seemed important, hope i captured it) <LeeF> yes, that's accurate. <ericP> <John> <plays> <baseball>: <ericP> <name> "John". <ericP> _:x <plays> <baseball>; <ericP> <name> "Bob". <ericP> _:y <plays> <baseball>; <ericP> <name> "Bob". <LeeF> patH: current design has blanket assumption that answer bindings must be bound to "things" that already exist in the graph (prevents added redundancy) <AndyS_> Renaming gets done in the results format so no need here. <ericP> ?x <plays> <baseball> leans out to: <ericP> <John> <plays> <baseball>. <ericP> or <ericP> <John> <plays> <baseball>. <ericP> _:z <plays> <baseball>. <ericP> ? * jeen has the feeling that this all boils down to what we try to capture with the notion of 'dataset' already <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone? <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF (muted), EliasT, AndyS_, EnricoF, PatH, DanC, JanneS, SteveH (muted), Jeen, Jos_De_Roo, Ericp <LeeF> jeen - I thought that was the case except for entailment scenarios that can't be expressed as a single logical closure graph (the OWL-DL little house scenario?). <LeeF> zakim, unmute me <Zakim> LeeF should no longer be muted <patH> Lee- as long as we use 'entails' in the actual statement, we don't have to worry about the logical closure issue. <LeeF> Right, I understand that patH, thanks. <EliasT> does no code change, means no ENTAILS keyword? <AndyS_> Yes <AndyS_> No ENTAILS keyword <EliasT> so how does Enrico see us giving people hooks for other entailment levels? <franconi> I mean with the ENTAILS keywork, which defaults to simple-entailment <DanC> ack steveh * Zakim unmutes SteveH <patH> Theoretical hooks in definitions, not code hooks. * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue <ericP> q+ * Zakim sees ericP on the speaker queue <SteveH> Zakim, mute me <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted <ericP> q- * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue * ericP now understands DanC's ack was to unmute steveh <JanneS> JanneS: lc ok, hopes the editorial wording would match with a more generic semantics roadmap -> no need to change existing code <EliasT> I'm still confused, patH says theoretical hooks, Enrico says ENTAILS keyword. which one is it? <franconi> both! <EliasT> :-) <ericP> Stick with LC: <ericP> I want people to fold the semantics parameter into either the service graph or the FROM/FROM NAMED graphs. <ericP> I haven't seen interop use cases motivating pushing this parameter into the protocol or the grammar. <ericP> Peter may have problems running test cases that rely on non-lean graphs if his engine requires test cases. Do we have any? <JanneS> Jos: ok with LC <patH> Enrico, do you mean that the query will specify which entailment to use? <EliasT> if entails defaults to our current design, then we don't have to change the test cases, but code would have to change to throw an error if a different entail parameter is passed. <AndyS_> algebra has not been worked through and I fear problems will arise if we rush believing it is trivial (e.g. undistinguished variables, unbounds) * SerT has joined #dawg <DanC> q+ to clarify that owl entailment can't be "hidden" in the dataset * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue <patH> Andy, yes. We need to do the checks. <LeeF> thanks, DanC, that's whay I was trying to say in IRC. <franconi> Pat, there are several possibilities here: for example theh service may offer different addresses for the different entailments <JanneS> I thought I have voted for having the different entailments being provided at different addresses... * ericP zakim, please mute ericP * Zakim Ericp should now be muted <DanC> 3 columns http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#rdfSemantics <EliasT> what does different address mean? different endpoints or different default-graph-uri? both? <kendall> hmm, while not officially here, i need to think about multiple endpoints in the WSDL, whether there's any issue with having multiple endpoints for the same (from the WSDL point of view) operation <LeeF> What are the current objections to (1) specifying the LC design w/ entailment verbiage and (2) omitting ENTAILS, hence requiring that any other entailment be encoded in an endpoint or graph URI? <kendall> ah, good question elias <JanneS> (I thought different endpoints, Elias) <DanC> Zakim, take up item 5 <Zakim> agendum 5. "toward SPARQL QL updated WD" taken up [from DanC] <patH> Lee, thats the gaol Im trying to steer us to. <AndyS_> OWL disjunction : distinguished / non-distinguished variables change the answer <patH> gaol/goal (!) <AndyS_> ie. chnage the SELECT and the change <EliasT> I guess we've moved on to next agendum. <ericP> ack ericP * Zakim unmutes Ericp <AndyS_> ie. chnage the SELECT and the # solutions change * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue <LeeF> AndyS_, I'm sorry - which example is that, again, that illustrates the distinguished/non-distinguished variable issue? <AndyS_> Enricos worker example or Bijans (will get links...) <LeeF> I know that example, no need for the link. Thanks. <DanC> DONE: ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... <LeeF> I just didn't remember it involving the # of bindings changing with the projection changing. Will re-look at it. <DanC> DONE: # ACTION: PatH to review The Semantics of SPARQL <DanC> ACTION: PatH to sketch tests that characterize impact of semantics work * RRSAgent records action 2 <DanC> -- continues <AndyS_> Bijan: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0498.html <DanC> ACTION Bijan: estimate impact of "abstract syntax entailment" etc. on WG test harness [CONTINUES] * RRSAgent records action 3 <AndyS_> Enricos ==> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0069 <DanC> ACTION: Bijan to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [CONTINUES] * RRSAgent records action 4 * ericP suffering from convenient turrett's syndrome * DanC "the paper"? <DanC> ACTION: Enrico extend http://www.inf.unibz.it/krdb/w3c/sparql/ to cover "the algebra", i.e. optional, UNBOUND * RRSAgent records action 5 <DanC> Zakim, close item 6 <Zakim> agendum 6, issues#rdfSemantics, closed <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is <Zakim> 4. QL Conformance [from DanC] <franconi> Semantics of optional: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0451 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#id-xquery-conformance <AndyS_> Enrico - there was a Q from Steve - did it get an answer? <franconi> Which Q? <AndyS_> In email - see the lists * ericP goes hog wild on the spec <AndyS_> Enrico - see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0457.html <DanC> EricP is convinced a conformance section is worthwhile; should be editorial diff to rq23 <franconi> Ah, I lost it :-) Oh yes, this is it - I agree <DanC> DanC suggests getting the relevant protocol text before going to the commentor; WG decision not needed. <DanC> Zakim, close this item <Zakim> agendum 5 closed <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is <Zakim> 4. QL Conformance [from DanC] <DanC> Zakim, close item 4 <Zakim> agendum 4, QL Conformance, closed <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is <Zakim> 7. issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol [from DanC] <DanC> Zakim, take up item 5 <Zakim> agendum 5. "toward SPARQL QL updated WD" taken up [from DanC] <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0176.html handling SPARQL QL comments <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/97C9F8341808C244BFF39DCB6EDD5AD71116B2@server.home.ryan.levering.name # 2005-08-17T13:55:31Z from RRLevering * kendall has quit IRC (Ping timeout) <AndyS_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Aug/0096 <DanC> 2005-08-30T19:01:08Z from jagannathan.srinivasan <DanC> ACTION Jeen: address 2005-08-30T19:01:08Z from jagannathan.srinivasan * RRSAgent records action 6 * JosD have to leave tcon now.. (having holiday) <Zakim> -Jos_De_Roo * LeeF has left #dawg * LeeF has joined #dawg <LeeF> whoops. * LeeF removes ESC key from keyboard <ericP> { ?x sparql:isIRI ?y } <DanC> ... FILTER ( my_renamed_sop:isIRI(?x) ) <ericP> vs. <ericP> ... FILTER ( isIRI(?x) ) <SteveH> no opinion <ericP> AndyS: i prefer that all functions have a URI <ericP> ... including the level-breakers <SteveH> s <ericP> i.e. FILTER ( isBound(?x) ) vs. FILTER ( my_renamed_sop:isBOUND(?x) ) vs. <DanC> ACTION EricP: mail the WG asking about URIs for functions, re comment 2005-10-26T22:08:10Z from r.newman http://www.w3.org/mid/8CC73085-F6B6-4F56-91B8-8940E55B1648@reading.ac.uk * RRSAgent records action 7 <JanneS> DanC suggests publishing of new WD with Eric's and Andy's changes + approval from Mr. X by 16th <JanneS> EricP: could take the time to issue new LC <DanC> ACTION DanC: propose changes-from-lc section <JanneS> DanC: who could do section-by-section change log? * RRSAgent records action 8 <EliasT> will that publication have answers to all of the comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0176.html ? <DanC> (I'm somewhat inclined to not decide today on the grounds of time) <AndyS_> Some are susbtantive which is one place where we need WG members help <AndyS_> i.e. take an issue - propose changes (diffs to HTML best) - send to WG. <AndyS_> (the right answer is "current text" unless you find a bug :-) <EliasT> we don't have to have specific assignments.. right? <EliasT> everyone shold be looking at them and answering what they can... concurrency is solved by email reply to the comment, correct? <DanC> ADJOURN. <AndyS_> No - just pick one - tell WG if it will be long thought process <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access <RRSAgent> I have made the request, DanC <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer? <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2005/11/08-dawg-irc#T16-03-18
Received on Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:08:19 UTC