- From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:39:36 -0400
- To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <20050728193936.GB2854@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-minutes
RDF Data Access
26 Jul 2005
Agenda
See also: IRC log
Attendees
Present
AndyS, Jeen_Broekstra, HowardK, HiroyukiS, Kendall_Clark,
DaveB, DanC, EricP, EliasT, LeeF, Kevin, Jos_De_Roo, Souri
Regrets
Chair
DanC
Scribe
DaveB, EricP
Contents
* Topics
1. Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSe
p/0120.html
2. ISSUE resultsMimeType
3. SPARQL results namespace name
4. SPARQL results publication
5. Experience with SPARQL/P/SOAP/Axis Seaborne
6. SPARQL QL last call comments
7. BASE IRI resolution
8. Issue queryMimeType, "External Storage of Queries"
9. issue valueTesting: optional and error cases
* Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________________
Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0120.html
<DanC> Scribe: DaveB
<_> 26 July agenda
<DanC> 19 July minutes
accepted minutes
Next meeting: next week, chair: DanC, scribe: AndyS
actions in section one of the agenda:
<_> ACTION: EricP clarify which regex lang [DONE] [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: PatH to review new optionals definitions, if any. [DONE]
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: DanC to check after August on SteveH regarding test
preparation for publication as WG Note [CONTINUED] [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime
triple [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [CONTINUED]
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: EricP to finish extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 [CONTINUED]
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: SteveH to review the relevant test case re: IRI
normalization ref http://www.w3.org/2005/06/28-dawg-minutes#item06
[CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<_> ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to
valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) ref
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf5-bos.html#item05 CONTINUED
[CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
ISSUE resultsMimeType
comment from july 2004
ref to
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0116.ht
ml
<_> IANA mime type registration for "application/sparql-results+xml"
<kendall> is ".srf" better?
<DanC> AndyS: seems OK, though I found one conflict with ".srq"
<kendall> where "better" == "no conflicts"
<kendall> I'm a little bit leery of this conflict w/ some sql systems,
but it's not a big deal.
<DanC> (I was thinking .sqr )
<db-scr> Souri arrivesi
<db-scr> DanC - add it to the result draft and get reviewers
<DanC> Scribe: EricP
<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to add mime type to results format [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<AndyS> A Google search for filetype:sqr gave no returns
<scribe> ACTION: EliasT to review XML Results mime-type registration
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<scribe> ACTION: DanC to review XML Results mime-type registration
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<DaveB> it's only 134 words...
<DaveB> lines
<JosD> found http://filext.com/detaillist.php?extdetail=SRQ and should
mean "Unprocessed Microsoft Server Request"
<DanC> 4ish
straw poll: who wants to resolve XML Results mime-type today?
0 want to delay
PROPOSED: that http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/mime.txt
(delegating choice of file extension to the editor) addresses issue
resultsMimeType, contingent on review by Elias
RESOLVED, OBJECTIONS: 0, ABSENTIONS: 0
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note impact on protocol examples
<DanC> ACTION: KendallC to update protocol spec w.r.t. results mime
type [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
SPARQL results namespace name
<DanC> How about changing sparqlResults to
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2005/sparql-results
<DaveB> cvs 1.45 of rf1 now has mime type section 5
<kendall> I prefer dash to camel case, but don't care about the month
droppage.
DanC: Bjoern: '-' separated namespaces are easier for javascript
coders than camel case.
... ... also '-' separated namespaces are more consistent with other
W3C namespaces
7-ish prefer '-'
<DanC> PROPOSED: to change the namespace name to
http://www.w3.org/2005/sparql-results (and update rf1 and rq23)
OBJECTIONS: 0
ABSENTIONS: 0
RESOLVED
<kendall> ACTION: KendallC to Check whether the results namespace is
in protocol draft; if so, update. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<scribe> ACTION: AndyS to fix rq23 to reflect new results namespace
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<scribe> ACTION: EricP to ask for namespace approval and put a
document there [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<DanC> ACTION: DaveB to update rf1 with new namespace [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<DanC> resolution is contingent on director's approval
<DaveB> rf1 cvs 1.46 now has the new namespace
EliasT: atom [#-]-less namespace is ugly when concatonated
DanC: i know of no intention to use with RDF
<DanC> (in irc, who prefers http://www.w3.org/2005/sparql-results# ? )
<kendall> i prefer # to bare "sparql-results"
who prefers a hash?: 3 or 4
who's prefers none?: 0
<DanC> PROPOSED: to change the namespace name to
http://www.w3.org/2005/sparql-results# (and update rf1 and rq23)
<DanC> RESOLVED, JeenB abstaining
ABSTENTIONS: jeen
SPARQL results publication
DanC: DaveB has integrated ordering and limits
LeeF: i *think* all outstanding points have been addressed
DanC: I imagine a test case with an attribute from a randing namespace
DaveB: text says "this element here, and there are these attribtutes
there" but the schemas could be normative (striking the caveat "these
are informative " sentence)
<DanC> "Normativeness of the XML schemas. Pick one?"
<kendall> (I'm planning to use the RelaxNG one in my web framework to
validate XML stored in a db...FWIW)
<LeeF> similarly, we have as of yet uncoded plans that will likely use
the XML schema
DanC: who wants to make the XSD schema normative?
around 6
<DanC> PROPOSED: to note that the .xsd is derived from the .rng and
make them both normative
<DanC> PROPOSED: to note that the .xsd is derived from the .rng (and
therefore, as far as we know, they mean the same thing) and make them
both normative
<howardk> daveb: did you get my original email posted to the group?
<DanC> so RESOLVED
DanC: is there a term for "SPARQL Results Format document"?
<kendall> "serialized result set"?
DaveB: could add to section 1 or 2
<DanC> "sparql results document"
<DanC> ACTION: DaveB to choose a term and define it [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<kendall> I'm happy following Dave's lead here.
<kendall> ACTION: KendallC to use Dave's name for a results set doc in
the protocol draft... [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
DanC: i can now test an instance with a schema validator
... i can now test an instance with a schema validator
... yes or no, take the XML Results Format + actioned cahnges to last
call
... LC to end at the same time as SPARQL Query
all are happy with it
<DanC> PROPOSED: to take v1.46 + edits per actions today (plus SOTD)
to last call.
<DanC> RESOLVED. Action EricP
<DanC> critical path people are: Dave, DanC, EliasT, EricP
<scribe> ACTION: ericP to publish rf1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
Experience with SPARQL/P/SOAP/Axis Seaborne
kendall: worried about optimizing for one particular tool (Axis)
AndyS: have eliminated all Axis-isms
<DanC> ACTION: KendallC to add POST binding to protocol doc [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
kendall: post binding is number one on my protocol doc list
<DanC> ("'patch' is invoved making the xsd from relaxng..."? hmm.)
<DanC> ACTION: KendallC to consider flattening rdf-dataset a la
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0087.ht
ml [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
kendall: I added rdf-dataset only to mirror the prose
<EliasT> re: xsd/relaxng patch. Does it matter if both are
independently normative?
SPARQL QL last call comments
<kendall> AndyS: Sorry to have not ACK'd publicly on that message.
It's useful, I just lost track of it.
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to investigate having CVS commits send to the WG
list [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<AndyS> Kendall - no problem
DanC: I asked sysreq to do it. they said "done". i haven't seen it
work
<kendall> AndyS: yr point 2/ is also on my TODO list already, so ACK
that. I'll think about 3/ & 4/
DanC: we now have 4 open issues (from the comments)
<kendall> (My only comment about 5/ is that I wish we had xml
serialization of queries so we could POST *that*, but -shrug-)
<AndyS> Err - that's different - I'm asking for a POST HTML form
DanC: editorial comments included ref to ABNF
<DanC> ACTION: DaveB respond to "sparqlResults namespace" comment
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0
039.html , after rq23 is updated [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
DanC: we owe Bjoern an "are you happy?" response
<kendall> AndyS: well, yes, gotcha. We have to POST something, and the
only thing we can post now, since it's the only thing we have
predefined, is application/x-www-form-urlencoded.
<DanC> I'm noodling on distinguishing "are you happy?" responses
DanC later suggested the prefix [OK?], [CLOSED] indicates an ack to an
"are you satisfied" ack
DanC: WG members are welcome to act on any comment by proposing text
to the editor via the WG
... some prefix will indicate a request to close
<AndyS> I just want an HTML forms interface!
<kendall> i don't want one. i guess i was suggesting that if we define
a way to post stuff, people can do that from HTML forms or from some
kind of automated client. i care about the latter, you care about the
former. i don't see a problem?
<AndyS> Quite hard to POST XML from HTML forms :-) without javascript.
<LeeF> So, application/x-www-form-urlencoded.is fine then, right,
AndyS?
<LeeF> I don't think the two of you are disagreeing.
<kendall> i was explicitly agreeing, actually. i guess not explicit
enough.
<AndyS> LeeF : yes
<AndyS> Thought you were wanting XML in plain HTTP.
<kendall> nope. (well, yes, i said i do want that, but then I said
application/x-www-form-urlencoded was good enough for now. :>)
BASE IRI resolution
[DanC summarizes
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0096]
AndyS: I use java.net.uri . i don't think it does normalization.
<DanC> PROPOSED: to add clarify SPARQL QL spec about base IRI
normalization and add tests as per
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0096.ht
ml
RESOLVED, OBJECTIONS: 0, ABSTENTIONS: 0
<scribe> ACTION: ericP to add "don't normalize" to rq23 (perhaps
supplied in 0096) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<scribe> ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<DanC>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0
042.html Bjoern Hoehrmann
<scribe> ACTION: EricP to add test in 0096 to rq23 tests. label
"approved" and ref this meeting record. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
Issue queryMimeType, "External Storage of Queries"
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/mime.txt
<DanC> "application/sparql"
<kendall> My only concern here is making it possible in the future to
have an XML serialization of SPARQL queries. Err, I mean, not making
it not possible.
<AndyS> text/ ?
<DanC> mime.txt,v 1.2 2005/07/25 15:41:27
<AndyS> UTF-8 vs UTF-16?
<DaveB> no, not text/
<DaveB> then you *do* get into charset issues
<kendall> (Hmm, I guess my concern is moot, thinking about it some
more.)
<kendall> I'd prefer "application/sparql-query" to
"application/sparql", I think. More specific, more clear.
<kendall> Also symmetric with "sparql-results"
<LeeF> +1 kendall's suggestion
<howardk> +1 as well
<EliasT> +1
<EliasT> file extension? .sq?
<EliasT> as opposed to ".rq"
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/mime.txt
application/sparql-query mime-type registration
<kendall> ACTION: KendallC to add security considerations section to
proto draft, under 4. Policy... [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
mime.txt updated, @@'s added
<kendall> Is ".rq" the conventional extension for RDQL queries?
<LeeF> rq = "RDF query" presumably?
<scribe> ACTION: ericP to update rq23 to include the text of
rq23/mime.txt reflect security concearns [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
<AndyS> We use that in the test suite
<kendall> cool; just wondering
<DaveB> yes all our tests are .rq
issue valueTesting: optional and error cases
<AndyS> It's not in obvious use elsewhere (strangely)
<kendall> i find it a tiny bit confusing, but not a big deal.
<DanC> "SPARQL defines a set of functions & operations (sections 11.1
and 11.2) that all implementations must provide."
<kendall> +1 to DanC's point
<kendall> though I'd slice up the core differently, I think. I don't
want to be required to implement all those Fs&Os to be a sparql
processor. Am I the only one?
<DanC> DanC: as I wrote earlier, I prefer not to refer to
"implementations" at all in the QL spec; I prefer to specify
languages, e.g. Core Sparql and extended sparql
11.2.4 Extensible Value Testing
kendall: I don't want to have to implement all (for instance, dates)
<kendall> I *may* just be pointlessly whining here!
kendall: of the functions and operators
... i'd like the core to be smaller
<DanC> AndyS: if dates are not core, < might not work on them
<AndyS> Integers are harder than dates!
<kendall> but i have clients for integers :>
<howardk> serious andy?
Kendall: dates and strings probably aren't that much work. don't want
to make a big deal of it.
<jeen> as a data point: we recently received a code contribution in
Sesame for supporting dates. it took the coder about a week to
implement (that is, including getting familiar with the sesame code
base).
<AndyS> Type promotion needs to be done. 1.5 > 2^^xsd:byte
<DanC> FILTER func:even(?id)
<DanC> 11.2.4 Extensible Value Testing
<AndyS> I used the Xerces code (via Dave Reynolds wrappers) for date
comparision, If you have a library, its easy, if not, it is long.
<howardk> right
<AndyS> (I was picky and wanted timezone to be preserved - that was my
value add - Xerces turns all to Z)
<kendall> or if you have a library and there is semantic mismatch, but
-shrug-
<DanC> bug: (section 11.3)
<DanC> " there is an extension mechanism (section 11.3)"
<DanC> (I recommend you use XSLT to make/check your xrefs)
<kendall> it's pretty much 90 minutes, FYI
<DanC> ACTION EricP/Andy: revise rq23 to remove reference to
implementations/engines (e.g. 3.3 Value Constraints �EUR" Definition )
<DaveB> the rf1 abstract also uses impl
<DaveB> uhoh, I gotta go rsn
<DanC> ADJOURN.
<kendall> thx
<DaveB> seems .srx isn't used according to filext.com
<DaveB> or file-ext.com
<DanC> (looking at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2234.html )
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: AndyS to fix rq23 to reflect new results namespace
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to review XML Results mime-type registration
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DaveB respond to "sparqlResults namespace" comment
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0
039.html , after rq23 is updated [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DaveB to add mime type to results format [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DaveB to choose a term and define it [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DaveB to update rf1 with new namespace [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: EliasT to review XML Results mime-type registration
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: ericP to add "don't normalize" to rq23 (perhaps supplied
in 0096) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: EricP to add test in 0096 to rq23 tests. label
"approved" and ref this meeting record. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: EricP to ask for namespace approval and put a document
there [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: ericP to publish rf1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: ericP to update rq23 to include the text of
rq23/mime.txt reflect security concearns [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: KendallC to add POST binding to protocol doc [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: KendallC to add security considerations section to proto
draft, under 4. Policy... [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: KendallC to Check whether the results namespace is in
protocol draft; if so, update. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: KendallC to consider flattening rdf-dataset a la
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0087.ht
ml [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: KendallC to update protocol spec w.r.t. results mime
type [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: KendallC to use Dave's name for a results set doc in the
protocol draft... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous
to valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) ref
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf5-bos.html#item05 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to check after August on SteveH regarding test
preparation for publication as WG Note [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on
op:dateTime triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to investigate having CVS commits send to the
WG list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: EricP to finish extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: SteveH to review the relevant test case re: IRI
normalization ref http://www.w3.org/2005/06/28-dawg-minutes#item06
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[DONE] ACTION: EricP clarify which regex lang [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[DONE] ACTION: PatH to review new optionals definitions, if any.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-irc]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.126 (CVS
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$Date: 2005/07/28 19:34:42 $
--
-eric
office: +81.466.49.1170 W3C, Keio Research Institute at SFC,
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Received on Thursday, 28 July 2005 19:39:41 UTC