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RE: definition of Web Publication

From: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:09:09 -0400
To: "'Garth Conboy'" <garth@google.com>, "'Johnson, Rick'" <Rick.Johnson@ingramcontent.com>
Cc: "'Leonard Rosenthol'" <lrosenth@adobe.com>, "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, "'W3C Publishing Working Group'" <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <004a01d30536$727576f0$576064d0$@gmail.com>
> It's a little bit unclear to me what "standard OWP technologies" means

 

That's one of the problems I had with the definition, too. It's also unclear what "organized together" means (through a manifest, in a directory, something else?). And do you really have a collection if it has no resources?

 

It's also kind of a generic definition of a collection, as you can apply it to most anything:

 

A Car is a collection of one or more constituent parts, organized together in a uniquely identifiable grouping

Dave Cramer is a collection of one or more constituent parts, organized together in a uniquely identifiable grouping

 

There's a certain universal truthiness to these statements at the same time as they don't really tell you anything about their subjects. And, as Rick says, if OWP only enters as optional rendering, it becomes even more unclear what the boundaries of a web publication are.

 

Matt

 

From: Garth Conboy [mailto:garth@google.com] 
Sent: July 24, 2017 11:43 PM
To: Johnson, Rick <Rick.Johnson@ingramcontent.com>
Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>; Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>; Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com>; W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: definition of Web Publication

 

Hi Rick,

 

I tend to think using "standard  OWP technologies" is likely the only reasonable way of presenting WP content.  However...

 

It's a little bit unclear to me what "standard OWP technologies" means -- if I write my own CSS engine is that "non-standard OWP technologies" if I don't use a system Browser or WebView is that "non-standard?".

 

So, I kinda think the "may" is correct -- in that it's requirement that whatever we do is presentable using the "normal" stuff... but, I'm not sure I'd make it a requirement.

 

Best,

   Garth

 

 

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Johnson, Rick <Rick.Johnson@ingramcontent.com <mailto:Rick.Johnson@ingramcontent.com> > wrote:

Leonard,

 

Restating my issue with the original:

 

In response to the word “MAY” in the definition of WP, I’m trying to understand the use cases for a W3C specification for any WP that does not present using OWP.

 

Why would this not be “is” (to affirm that what we are doing is around OWP, while leaving open a door for non OWP) or “must” (closing the door for anything not OWP)?

 

-Rick

 

From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com> >
Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 5:14 PM
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com> >, 'Garth Conboy' <garth@google.com <mailto:garth@google.com> >
Cc: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> >, 'W3C Publishing Working Group' <public-publ-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org> >
Subject: Re: definition of Web Publication
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org> >
Resent-Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 5:13 PM

 

Appreciate the attempt to open it, but I still am quite happy with the original.  I still don’t see a real need to change it…

 

Leonard

 

From: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com> >
Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 6:18 PM
To: Garth Conboy <garth@google.com <mailto:garth@google.com> >
Cc: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> >, 'W3C Publishing Working Group' <public-publ-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org> >
Subject: RE: definition of Web Publication
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org> >
Resent-Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 6:18 PM

 

To Garth, no, not omitted on purpose so much as not having a lot of time to think about it before having to run out. :)

 

To Leonard, sure, if you're concerned about interpretation it can be made more open. But, again, the definition as was written tells you nothing about a web publication or what makes it unique. I can see how that was agreed on for a specification that wasn't defining web publications, but if the idea is that we move to something more tangible, that's what I'd offer based on how discussions have progressed so far. It no doubt will need further tweaking as we progress, of course, and perhaps manifest will go away. But until then a manifest appears to be the course we're charting.

 

Updating from my original post, perhaps:

 

A Web Publication is a uniquely identifiable representation of a bounded work using Open Web Platform technologies. It is defined by a collection of constituent resources linked together through a manifest. The content of a Web Publication can take a wide variety of forms, from formal artistic and intellectual works to ad hoc documents and memos.

 

Matt

 

From: Garth Conboy [mailto:garth@google.com <mailto:garth@google.com> ] 
Sent: July 24, 2017 1:42 PM
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com> >
Cc: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> >; W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org> >
Subject: Re: definition of Web Publication

 

I'm gonna go with "+1".   I tend to think "uniquely identifiable grouping" is key.  Matt, did you omit that on purpose?

 

Best,

   Garth

 

 

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com> > wrote:

It's a somewhat vague definition, I find. What really sets it apart from a web page or web site, for example? Those have constituent resources, are uniquely identifiable and viewable using OWP technologies. It also leaves open the question of what "organized together" means.

 

I hate writing quick responses to terminology, but something like the following would be more where my thinking is:

 

A Web Publication (WP) is a representation of an artistic or intellectual work using Open Web Platform technologies. It is defined by a collection of constituent resources linked together through a manifest.

 

Matt

 

From: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken [mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> ] 
Sent: July 24, 2017 1:04 PM
To: W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org <mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org> >
Subject: definition of Web Publication

 

The DPUB IG proposed a definition of Web Publications [1, 2]

 

Here are the short definitions. Please see [1] for the longer definition.

 

*  A Web Publication (WP) is a collection of one or more constituent resources, organized together in a uniquely identifiable grouping that may be presented using standard Open Web Platform technologies. 

*  A Packaged Web Publication (PWP) is a Web Publication <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fpwp%2F%23dfn-web-publication&data=02%7C01%7C%7C96b69b9e923b44adb55908d4d2e1e13a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636365314963898112&sdata=78TTzB3d9xd2MGb4e8E8LfuPFXJHErBd%2FTXUuCtjFzc%3D&reserved=0>  whose constituent resources are combined into a single distributable file, using some standard packaging format. 

*  In this document, manifest refers to an abstract means to contain information necessary to the proper management, rendering, and so on, of a publication. This is opposed to metadata that contains information on the content of the publication like author, publication date, and so on. The precise format of how such a manifest is stored is not considered in this document.

 

If you are happy with these definitions, a simple +1 vote is sufficient. If you are not, please vote -1 and propose revisions.

 

Thank you,

 

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/pwp/#whatisawebpublication <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fpwp%2F%23whatisawebpublication&data=02%7C01%7C%7C96b69b9e923b44adb55908d4d2e1e13a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636365314963898112&sdata=%2B0xPJGjK4CsEdtsCyGdPAaC5wVHtCpKCKvV6%2FDJ0%2Bik%3D&reserved=0> 

[2] https://www.w3.org/TR/pwp/#terminology <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fpwp%2F%23terminology&data=02%7C01%7C%7C96b69b9e923b44adb55908d4d2e1e13a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636365314963898112&sdata=YvcFmBoAzRNPjYmroLVPb%2BZG19nahTIxbCps7dkn0Ek%3D&reserved=0>  

 

Tzviya Siegman

Information Standards Lead

Wiley

 <tel:(201)%20748-6884> 201-748-6884

 <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> tsiegman@wiley.com 

 

 

 
Received on Tuesday, 25 July 2017 11:09:37 UTC

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