Re: definition of Web Publication

I would say that *when* it is presented, you should/shall absolutely use OWP.

However, you may have an OWP that is never presented to a human but only consumed by machines – in which case, that wouldn't apply.  So yes, I agree, we could indeed fix that wording up…

Leonard

From: "Johnson, Rick" <Rick.Johnson@ingramcontent.com>
Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 10:53 PM
To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>, Garth Conboy <garth@google.com>
Cc: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, 'W3C Publishing Working Group' <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: definition of Web Publication

Leonard,

Restating my issue with the original:

In response to the word “MAY” in the definition of WP, I’m trying to understand the use cases for a W3C specification for any WP that does not present using OWP.

Why would this not be “is” (to affirm that what we are doing is around OWP, while leaving open a door for non OWP) or “must” (closing the door for anything not OWP)?

-Rick

From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 5:14 PM
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>, 'Garth Conboy' <garth@google.com>
Cc: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, 'W3C Publishing Working Group' <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: definition of Web Publication
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 5:13 PM

Appreciate the attempt to open it, but I still am quite happy with the original.  I still don’t see a real need to change it…

Leonard

From: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 6:18 PM
To: Garth Conboy <garth@google.com>
Cc: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, 'W3C Publishing Working Group' <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Subject: RE: definition of Web Publication
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 6:18 PM

To Garth, no, not omitted on purpose so much as not having a lot of time to think about it before having to run out. :)

To Leonard, sure, if you're concerned about interpretation it can be made more open. But, again, the definition as was written tells you nothing about a web publication or what makes it unique. I can see how that was agreed on for a specification that wasn't defining web publications, but if the idea is that we move to something more tangible, that's what I'd offer based on how discussions have progressed so far. It no doubt will need further tweaking as we progress, of course, and perhaps manifest will go away. But until then a manifest appears to be the course we're charting.

Updating from my original post, perhaps:

A Web Publication is a uniquely identifiable representation of a bounded work using Open Web Platform technologies. It is defined by a collection of constituent resources linked together through a manifest. The content of a Web Publication can take a wide variety of forms, from formal artistic and intellectual works to ad hoc documents and memos.

Matt

From: Garth Conboy [mailto:garth@google.com]
Sent: July 24, 2017 1:42 PM
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Cc: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com>; W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: definition of Web Publication

I'm gonna go with "+1".   I tend to think "uniquely identifiable grouping" is key.  Matt, did you omit that on purpose?

Best,
   Garth


On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com<mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>> wrote:
It's a somewhat vague definition, I find. What really sets it apart from a web page or web site, for example? Those have constituent resources, are uniquely identifiable and viewable using OWP technologies. It also leaves open the question of what "organized together" means.

I hate writing quick responses to terminology, but something like the following would be more where my thinking is:

A Web Publication (WP) is a representation of an artistic or intellectual work using Open Web Platform technologies. It is defined by a collection of constituent resources linked together through a manifest.

Matt

From: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken [mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>]
Sent: July 24, 2017 1:04 PM
To: W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Subject: definition of Web Publication

The DPUB IG proposed a definition of Web Publications [1, 2]

Here are the short definitions. Please see [1] for the longer definition.

•  A Web Publication (WP) is a collection of one or more constituent resources, organized together in a uniquely identifiable grouping that may be presented using standard Open Web Platform technologies.
•  A Packaged Web Publication (PWP) is a Web Publication<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fpwp%2F%23dfn-web-publication&data=02%7C01%7C%7C96b69b9e923b44adb55908d4d2e1e13a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636365314963898112&sdata=78TTzB3d9xd2MGb4e8E8LfuPFXJHErBd%2FTXUuCtjFzc%3D&reserved=0> whose constituent resources are combined into a single distributable file, using some standard packaging format.
•  In this document, manifest refers to an abstract means to contain information necessary to the proper management, rendering, and so on, of a publication. This is opposed to metadata that contains information on the content of the publication like author, publication date, and so on. The precise format of how such a manifest is stored is not considered in this document.

If you are happy with these definitions, a simple +1 vote is sufficient. If you are not, please vote -1 and propose revisions.

Thank you,

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/pwp/#whatisawebpublication<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fpwp%2F%23whatisawebpublication&data=02%7C01%7C%7C96b69b9e923b44adb55908d4d2e1e13a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636365314963898112&sdata=%2B0xPJGjK4CsEdtsCyGdPAaC5wVHtCpKCKvV6%2FDJ0%2Bik%3D&reserved=0>
[2] https://www.w3.org/TR/pwp/#terminology<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fpwp%2F%23terminology&data=02%7C01%7C%7C96b69b9e923b44adb55908d4d2e1e13a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636365314963898112&sdata=YvcFmBoAzRNPjYmroLVPb%2BZG19nahTIxbCps7dkn0Ek%3D&reserved=0>

Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884<tel:(201)%20748-6884>
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>