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Re: Review of prov-dc

From: Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 15:57:51 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPRnXt=jxw0MWmTvd=U1jV765Mo5wMk2tV6QWvfYTrw35f55Pw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>
Cc: "<public-prov-wg@w3.org>" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:28 AM, Daniel Garijo <
dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es> wrote:
> Thanks Stian for your review.
> I have addressed most of the changes and answered your comments here:
> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Stian_Soiland-Reyes
> The document has now changes a lot since the last WD, so it would be great
> if you could have a quick look before the next telecon.
> Link:

Thanks for revising (!) the document. The figures looks really nice now,
specially on a high-density screen.

As a quick summary of my response (due to the meeting starting in 3
minutes) : The suggested changes look good, and I have no blockers. Some
little tweaks in the new material is suggested below.

Apologies to the formatting of this email, it is a bit difficult to respond
to a wiki page...

1) Outdated citations:
> [DCTERMS] Dublin Core Terms Vocabulary. 8 December 2010. URL: http://dublincore.org/documents/dcmi-terms/
Should be:
> Dublin Core Terms Vocabulary. 14 June 2012. URL: http://dublincore.org/documents/2012/06/14/dcmi-terms/

> I'm not sure about this change, since Thomas Baker (CIO of DCMI) proposed
to use the current one.

In Baker's review, it was the title of the document that was corrected:

     Currently reads:
            Dublin Core Terms Vocabulary. 8 December 2010. URL:

     Should read:
            DCMI Metadata Terms. 8 December 2010. URL:

but I don't think he checked the dates, because if you follow the link you
get the http://dublincore.org/documents/2012/06/14/dcmi-terms/ version, not
the http://dublincore.org/documents/2010/10/11/dcmi-terms/ version (note,
October, not December).

I think we should use the version IRI here, so that future readers are not
confused by the missing mapping of any DCMI terms that are added/modified
in a later version.

   [DCTERMS] DCMI Metadata Terms. 14 June 2012. URL:

> Unfortunately I can't put text in italics in the figures, it would
require me to redo them again. I think that this suggestion is not really
necessary since with capital letter reads fine. I have looked other
documents and they don't even introduce the class.

It's not ideal, but as the classnames (except prov:Publish) should all be
fairly well known I'll let it pass. ;-)

> Added table with the mappings. Added rationale for those not mapped.

Very good. Some small typos in the new table:

intelectual -> intellectual

> As we discussed in last week's telecon, dct:references is a subproperty
of wasDerivedFrom. It might seem a bit strong, but after all the resource
referencing the pre existing resource wouldn't have been the same if the
preexisting resource didn't exist. No changes done.

Just to confirm that I don't agree with this mapping (and would almost
never use prov:wasDerivedFrom in such fashion), but I won't be blocking on

> I don't agee here. If you "publish" the entity you submit the text via a
form, etc. to the wordpress platform to publish. That text would be the
"usedEntity". The same thing applies for issued. You can contribute to
create an entity that has not existed, but in order to make public some
content (publish), you need some pre- existing content. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a "publish" activity, but a "creation" activity...

OK, I can buy into this.

30) dct:dateCopyrighted should NOT have a used_entity

> I think that this is similar to my previous argument. You create a
resource and then you copyright it. They are different activities. The
input of the copyrightable activity could be the text you want to copyright.

No, those are not distinct activities. You gain copyright simply by
creating something of intellectual value. If I write here now a horrible

  Daniel is great
  He creates and fix and sing
  To everyone's joy

then I instantly gain copyright on that. There's no specific activity
involved with gaining copyright - it's a right!


Due to time constraints, I won't block on this, but I think the current
model with a prov:Copyright activity assumes too much about the legal
processes. (As described in the article above, it is common in some
countries (US) to REGISTER copyright - which certainly is an activity; but
this is independend from (and after) actually gaining copyright.

In all countries where the Berne
> apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official
> registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to
> tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a
> drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the
> copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.

I don't agree. If I have a catalog of books/products, etc. and I replace
item 4 in the catalog (a travel guide of Madrid) with item 45 (a travel
guide of paris), then they are not alternates of each other. However the
specialized entities in the catalog MadridGuideAsItem4 and
ParisGuideAsItem4 would be alternates of each other (and one is derived
from the other). I'll add it in the complex mapping.

OK, I think I understand your rationale for dct:replaces now. It is the
"book as X" that is replaced by "anotherbook as X" - you consider it to be
replaced in a certain context/role/collection.

I think it becomes more clear if we flip the sentence around:

There is a relation between two resources when the former replaces or
> displaces the latter. However, we can't always assume the replacement is
> derived from the former resource, because the replacement could have
> existed and been generated independently from the original (for instance if
> a "Introduction to provenance" book replaces the "Provenance in a nutshell"
> book in a catalog). Therefore the "replace" Activity uses a specialization
> of the replaced entity (_:oldEntity) and generated a specialization of
> the replacement (_:newEntity). These specializations model the aspect of
> the resource which is the subject of replacement, thus, _:newEntity was
> derived from _:oldEntity.

Stian Soiland-Reyes, myGrid team
School of Computer Science
The University of Manchester
Received on Thursday, 18 April 2013 14:58:40 UTC

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