Re: provenance of provenance

Hi Tim,

Below

On 05/16/2012 04:44 PM, Timothy Lebo wrote:
> Luc,
>
> within.
>
>
> On May 16, 2012, at 5:34 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>
>> Hi Tim,
>> Some comment below.
>>
>> On 05/15/2012 08:34 PM, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>>> Luc,
>>>
>>> Regarding 
>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd6-bundle.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding proposal:
>>>
>>> +0 to dropping 'account'
>>> +0 to introducing 'bundle' to rename 'account' (I think 'account' is 
>>> a satisfactory name and is more "provenance-y" than the mechanical 
>>> notion of 'bundle'; note that 'bundle' was first introduced only to 
>>> distinguish itself from the construct-heave 'account' at the time.)
>>> +1 to dropping hasAnnotation and Note
>>> +1 to adding the component on bundles (I'm leaning towards 'account' 
>>> now that we've shucked the heavy widgets it once had.)
>>>
>>> (I'm happy with either 'bundle' or 'account')
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments on the actual text is below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> 3)
>>>
>>> After:
>>> "hasProvenanceIn(ex:report1,
>>> -, -, -, "http://example.com/some-provenance.pn"^xsd:anyURI)"
>>>
>>>
>>> Could we add another
>>> example where your Provenance-URI itself defines a bundle?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hasProvenanceIn(ex:report1, ex:bundle34, -, -, "http://example.com/some-provenance.pn"^xsd:anyURI)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> OK that can be added. I am concerned about the already large number 
>> of examples in this section.
>
>
> Perhaps, but it was my first question in reading it, and I'd rather 
> another 2 inches of page to put the concern to bed.
>

OK, I will come up with something.
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4)
>>>
>>> Can you make the visualization tool use its own URIs for the
>>> graphics depicting the reports?
>>>
>>>    entity(ex:report1, [viz:color="orange"])
>>>    hasProvenanceIn(ex:report1, obs:bundle7, -, -, -)
>>>
>>>    entity(ex:report2, [viz:color="blue"])
>>>    hasProvenanceIn(ex:report2, obs:bundle7, -, -, -)
>>> ->
>>>
>>>    entity(tool:graphic1, [viz:color="orange"])
>>>    hasProvenanceIn(tool:graphic1, obs:bundle7, ex:report1, -, -)
>>>
>>>    entity(tool:graphic2, [viz:color="blue"])
>>>    hasProvenanceIn(ex:graphic2, obs:bundle7, ex:report2, -, -)
>> We could, but there is nothing in the model that forbids the current 
>> example, is there?
>
>
> Correct, this is a matter of modeling your domain, not the PROV model. 
> I consider the graphics to be distinct from those things that they depict.
> I'd rather avoid this domain concern and focus on the fact that we get 
> an alternateOf for free.
>
>

But, do we agree that tool:graphic1 is an alternate of ex:report1?

Given the above comment, I will try to also have an example where 
identifiers are changed,
so that we use target properly.


>
>>> 5)
>>>
>>> Why is it necessary that:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "it is necessary for it to have an identifier in the first place 
>>> (ex:d)."
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I am updating the text as follows.  Does clarify the issue, or is 
>> there a more fundamental concern?
>
> I just didn't understand what it was going to say.
>
>>
>>
>> According to their definition, derivations have an optional 
>> identifier. To express an alternate for a derivation, we need to be 
>> able to reference it, by means of an identifier. Hence, it is 
>> necessary for it to have an identifier in the first place (ex:d).
>
> This makes sense.
>
> Regards,
> Tim

Luc
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Luc
>>
>>
>>> On May 10, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> We are seeking feedback on text regarding bundles (allowing provenance
>>>> of provenance to be expressed).
>>>>
>>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd6-bundle.html
>>>>
>>>> It is addressing ISSUES-257, ISSUE-260, ISSUE-88, ISSUE-297.
>>>> We will respond to these issues individually, shortly.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Luc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>      
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm