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Re: prov:Dictionary example - without the specs

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2012 22:45:15 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|4effb82733061b1379d76babd971294co55MjL08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4FCFCF6B.5050802@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Paolo,

No that's not the issue I was trying to raise.

The definition of a list is classically:

- fun member(x,[]) = false
  |   member(x,b::y) =
        if x=b then true
        else member(x,y);

where one needs to be able to compare elements (x=b)

Given two uris, one cannot decide whether the entities they denote are 
the same or not.
Hence, we can't compute this member function.

We should not attempt to specify prov:Collection

Luc

On 06/06/12 22:06, Paolo Missier wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it seems to me that all the ping pong from this mail froward in the 
> thread is about whether Collections should be sets or bags 
> (multisets). In the latter case, it doesn't matter whether two URIs 
> really refer to the same entity.
> Is this the case? If so, would it be reasonable to accept that 
> (abstract) Collections are bags, and Dictionaries as /sets/ (of 
> key-valuye pairs)?
>
> -Paolo
>
>
> On 6/5/12 10:05 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> Thanks for your example.
>>
>> The following is not valid according to prov-dm:
>>
>> prov:hadMember                                             # These would be asserted on a simple (first step)
>>      
>>      36  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l36>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Glover_Roberts,_Jr.>, # prov:Collection.
>>      
>>      37  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l37>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Antonin_Scalia>,           #
>>      
>>      38  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l38>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Anthony_Kennedy>,          #
>>      
>>      39  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l39>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Clarence_Thomas>,          #
>>      
>>      40  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l40>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg>,      #
>>      
>>      41  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l41>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Stephen_Breyer>,           #
>>      
>>      42  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l42>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Samuel_Alito>,             #
>>      
>>      43  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l43>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Sonia_Sotomayor>,          #
>>      
>>      44  <http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership/rdf/eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership.ttl#l44>        <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Elena_Kagan>;
>>
>> The key reason why we went for a dictionary and, say, a set of entities,
>> is that we are unable to decide whether an entity belongs to a set on 
>> the basis of
>> its urls (since the same entity may be denoted by multiple urls).
>>
>> Luc
>>
>> On 05/06/2012 06:25, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>>> prov-wg,
>>>
>>> I tried my hand at modeling the provenance of the U.S. Supreme Court's current membership, and its derivation to it's first membership.
>>>
>>> The wiki page for the example is at:
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Eg-34-us-supreme-court-membership
>>>
>>> In an attempt to take a fresh look at how we're modeling dictionaries (and collections?), I didn't reference PROV-DM, PROV-O, or any other examples or documentation -- I just tried to describe the subject matter.
>>>
>>>
>>> How does it look?
>>>
>>> I'd like to move PROV-O (and DM, if it needs tweaking) towards this kind of modeling and naming.
>>>
>>> Discussion and feedback encouraged.
>>>
>>> Later today, I'll try to start from scratch on the DM and work through the current PROV-O modeling, and then the recent threads on this topic.
>>> I hope by then we can converge on a satisfactory design.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tim
>>>    
>
>
> -- 
> -----------  ~oo~  --------------
> Paolo Missier -Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk,pmissier@acm.org
> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University,  UK
> http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier
>    
Received on Wednesday, 6 June 2012 21:45:52 UTC

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