- From: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>
- Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 15:26:42 -0700
- To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
- Cc: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Paul Groth <pgroth@gmail.com>, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
On Nov 6, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Luc Moreau wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> >> I am not in favour of this, > > :-( > > >> as explained in the previous email. > > You said: > > "It is intentionally that we use typed literals here, and not identifiers. > > If we allow identifiers, then in effect we would have introduced a new > relation; it would be better defined as prov-dm relation, rather > than hidden in a qualifier." > > > I'm afraid that I don't understand the differences between DM's literals, identifiers, relations, and qualifiers well enough. +1 > > If by "relation" you mean Usage, Control, Participation, and Generation, then YES I agree adding role to this would be concerning. > > I like how it is currently stated: > "Qualifiers can be associated to relations, namely use and wasGeneratedBy, in order to further characterize their nature. Role is a pre-defined qualifier." > > which lets me describe the relation by specifying the role that the Entity played. > > I just don't want to tie our hands with a prov:role range of rdfs:Literal - we should be able to dereference the values of prov:role to find out more about it through Linked Data. +1 --Stephan > > -Tim > > > > >> >> What this shows, is that this WG can't reach consensus >> on role, and we might as well drop it from the model, >> because it uses too much bandwidth! > > > I just want a literal to be a Resource. Them I'm happy. > If we drop role, PROV-DM will be MUCH less useful. > > -Tim > > > > >> >> We should seriously consider this proposal! >> >> Luc >> >> On 06/11/11 15:46, Paul Groth wrote: >>> Hi Jim >>> >>> I think to address Tim's issue we should just allow qualifiers to be Literals or Identifiers as defined by prov-dm. >>> >>> Then one can use uris for roles without breaking compatibility with prov-DM >>> >>> Was that your suggestion ? >>> >>> Cheers >>> Paul >>> >>> On Nov 6, 2011, at 16:19, Jim McCusker<mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Make Roles resources like Entities. Classes of Roles (Creator, >>>> Publisher, PrincipleInvestigator) are instantiated for each Entity. Of >>>> course, this is rather similar to what's been rejected (?), but is >>>> still the best choice, IMO. This would be, for instance, "Barack >>>> Obama's role as president", as opposed to "the role of president", >>>> which would be a class. >>>> >>>> Role could also be an extension of skos:Concept and allow you to >>>> express "the role of president" directly without custom instantiation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok, so, what's alternative suggestion ? >>>>> >>>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>>> Electronics and Computer Science >>>>> University of Southampton >>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ >>>>> United Kingdom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 12:59, "Jim McCusker"<mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> This is a misunderstanding of a URI literal versus URI resource. When >>>>>> a URI resource is used, it can link to that resource when it has >>>>>> assertions made about it. This is not possible or intended with URI >>>>>> literals. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Tim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But doesn't this include URIs by means of typed literals? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science >>>>>>> University of Southampton >>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ >>>>>>> United Kingdom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 01:20, "Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker"<sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/142 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo >>>>>>>> On product: Data Model >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> prov-dm, 5.5.1 Qualifier: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "The value associated with a role attribute must be conformant with Literal." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Will this prevent PROV-O from using URIs to cite roles? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Restricting roles to literals will be severely limiting for PROV-O and semantic web applications, since literals cannot be described or served as linked data, and thus consumers will be unable to determine more information about what the role means. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jim McCusker >>>>>> Programmer Analyst >>>>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics >>>>>> Yale School of Medicine >>>>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330 >>>>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> PhD Student >>>>>> Tetherless World Constellation >>>>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute >>>>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu >>>>>> http://tw.rpi.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jim McCusker >>>> Programmer Analyst >>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics >>>> Yale School of Medicine >>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330 >>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu >>>> >>>> PhD Student >>>> Tetherless World Constellation >>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute >>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu >>>> http://tw.rpi.edu >>>> >>>> >> >> > > >
Received on Sunday, 6 November 2011 22:28:31 UTC