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Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 17:19:10 +0100
Message-ID: <8803ADF2-FD75-4CA9-B312-F4BCDD329B73@vu.nl>
CC: "Groth, P.T." <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
To: Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>
Currently, role is a reserved qualifier in the data model and has a semantics. This is just allowing the value of the role to be an identifier as well.

Are you suggesting that we are removing semantics from the data model by suggestion?

Thanks
Paul

On Nov 6, 2011, at 16:57, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:

> That means we are pushing out any semantics of roles to not be
> included in PROV. Are we scoping out every kind of abstractive and
> contextualization construct?
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>> Hi Jim
>> 
>> I think to address Tim's issue we should just allow qualifiers to be Literal=
>> s or Identifiers as defined by prov-dm.=20
>> 
>> Then one can use uris for roles without breaking compatibility with prov-DM
>> 
>> Was that your suggestion ?=20
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Paul
>> 
>> On Nov 6, 2011, at 16:19, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Make Roles resources like Entities. Classes of Roles (Creator,
>>> Publisher, PrincipleInvestigator) are instantiated for each Entity. Of
>>> course, this is rather similar to what's been rejected (?), but is
>>> still the best choice, IMO. This would be, for instance, "Barack
>>> Obama's role as president", as opposed to "the role of president",
>>> which would be a class.
>>> 
>>> Role could also be an extension of skos:Concept and allow you to
>>> express "the role of president" directly without custom instantiation.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> Ok, so, what's alternative suggestion ?
>>>> 
>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>> University of Southampton
>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>> United Kingdom
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 12:59, "Jim McCusker" <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> This is a misunderstanding of a URI literal versus URI resource. When
>>>>> a URI resource is used, it can link to that resource when it has
>>>>> assertions made about it. This is not possible or intended with URI
>>>>> literals.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But doesn't this include URIs by means of typed literals?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>>>> University of Southampton
>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 01:20, "Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker" <sysbot+tracker@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/142
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>>>>>>> On product: Data Model
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> prov-dm, 5.5.1 Qualifier:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "The value associated with a role attribute must be conformant with Literal."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Will this prevent PROV-O from using URIs to cite roles?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Restricting roles to literals will be severely limiting for PROV-O and semantic web applications, since literals cannot be described or served as linked data, and thus consumers will be unable to determine more information about what the role means.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jim McCusker
>>>>> Programmer Analyst
>>>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>>>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>>>> 
>>>>> PhD Student
>>>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>>>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jim McCusker
>>> Programmer Analyst
>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>> 
>>> PhD Student
>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim McCusker
> Programmer Analyst
> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
> Yale School of Medicine
> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
> 
> PhD Student
> Tetherless World Constellation
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
> http://tw.rpi.edu
Received on Sunday, 6 November 2011 16:19:53 UTC

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