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Re: PROV-ISSUE-47 (third-party-provenance): How to obtain provenance from a third party known by the user [Accessing and Querying Provenance]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:49:49 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|425bfa6632d066c1c94367cc9e0384e5n6RFnq08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4E31770D.7060606@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
CC: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Except that we should recognize that the document is to be identified 
for its provenance-uri(s) to be found.


PS. Adding PROV-ISSUE-46 for it to be indexed in that thread too by tracker.

On 07/28/2011 03:22 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
> I'll propose that is an orthogonal issue, raised for ISSUE-46 and best 
> discussed there, not as part of the third party service structure.
> #g
> -- 
> Luc Moreau wrote:
>> Hi Graham,
>> As for ISSUE-46, where do I find the information identifier, when I 
>> consider the case
>> of an html file on a disk?
>> I think there is a range of ways of "identifying documents", 
>> sometimes coexisting.
>> The specification should identify the rules that prevail to determine
>> the document exact identity.
>> I can see all the following identifiers having some value:
>> -a document-identifier embedded in the html file (useful for html 
>> file on disk)
>> -a document-identifier in the http header (would identify the actual 
>> bob returned)
>> -the url used to retrieve the document (useful for cool urls)
>> Luc
>> On 07/28/2011 01:40 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
>>> I believe this is addressed by section 3.4 
>>> (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/provenance-access.html#third-party-services), 
>>> which addresses precisely the use-case described by this issue.
>>> Specifically, if I have the URI of a third party provenance service, 
>>> and a URI or identifying information about the target resource, a 
>>> SPARQL query can be constructed to locate the required provenance 
>>> URI and/or data from that third party.  I think availability of such 
>>> information is pretty much a prerequisite for creating any kind of 
>>> third party provenance service - I can't see how it might work 
>>> without that.
>>> I think this may have more to do with discussion around ISSUE 46 
>>> (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/46) - the extent to which 
>>> the provenance information itself identifies the entity whose 
>>> provenance it describes.
>>> #g
>>> -- 
>>> Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>> PROV-ISSUE-47 (third-party-provenance): How to obtain provenance 
>>>> from a third party known by the user [Accessing and Querying 
>>>> Provenance]
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/47
>>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>> On product: Accessing and Querying Provenance
>>>> I don't understand how the proposal allows us to address 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceAccessScenario.
>>>> Specifically, I consider the case where the user wants to access 
>>>> provenance from a third-party they know (e.g. a favorite consumer 
>>>> group).
>>>> Using section 3, I can obtain one or more provenance-uris, which 
>>>> are known from the responding server or the document creator.
>>>> If my third-party is not known by the responding server or document 
>>>> creator, I have no mechanism to obtain a provenance-uri since I 
>>>> don't have have an identifier for the document I currently hold.
>>>> A solution could be: we need a BOB-identifier to be passed around 
>>>> (as suggested in ISSUE-46) and a mechanism that resolves a 
>>>> BOB-identifier to provenance-uri.

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Thursday, 28 July 2011 14:50:19 UTC

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