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Re: PROV-ISSUE-47 (third-party-provenance): How to obtain provenance from a third party known by the user [Accessing and Querying Provenance]

From: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:22:11 +0100
Message-ID: <4E317093.1060903@ninebynine.org>
To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
CC: public-prov-wg@w3.org
I'll propose that is an orthogonal issue, raised for ISSUE-46 and best discussed 
there, not as part of the third party service structure.


Luc Moreau wrote:
> Hi Graham,
> As for ISSUE-46, where do I find the information identifier, when I 
> consider the case
> of an html file on a disk?
> I think there is a range of ways of "identifying documents", sometimes 
> coexisting.
> The specification should identify the rules that prevail to determine
> the document exact identity.
> I can see all the following identifiers having some value:
> -a document-identifier embedded in the html file (useful for html file 
> on disk)
> -a document-identifier in the http header (would identify the actual bob 
> returned)
> -the url used to retrieve the document (useful for cool urls)
> Luc
> On 07/28/2011 01:40 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
>> I believe this is addressed by section 3.4 
>> (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/provenance-access.html#third-party-services), 
>> which addresses precisely the use-case described by this issue.
>> Specifically, if I have the URI of a third party provenance service, 
>> and a URI or identifying information about the target resource, a 
>> SPARQL query can be constructed to locate the required provenance URI 
>> and/or data from that third party.  I think availability of such 
>> information is pretty much a prerequisite for creating any kind of 
>> third party provenance service - I can't see how it might work without 
>> that.
>> I think this may have more to do with discussion around ISSUE 46 
>> (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/46) - the extent to which 
>> the provenance information itself identifies the entity whose 
>> provenance it describes.
>> #g
>> -- 
>> Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>> PROV-ISSUE-47 (third-party-provenance): How to obtain provenance from 
>>> a third party known by the user [Accessing and Querying Provenance]
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/47
>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>> On product: Accessing and Querying Provenance
>>> I don't understand how the proposal allows us to address 
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceAccessScenario.
>>> Specifically, I consider the case where the user wants to access 
>>> provenance from a third-party they know (e.g. a favorite consumer 
>>> group).
>>> Using section 3, I can obtain one or more provenance-uris, which are 
>>> known from the responding server or the document creator.
>>> If my third-party is not known by the responding server or document 
>>> creator, I have no mechanism to obtain a provenance-uri since I don't 
>>> have have an identifier for the document I currently hold.
>>> A solution could be: we need a BOB-identifier to be passed around (as 
>>> suggested in ISSUE-46) and a mechanism that resolves a BOB-identifier 
>>> to provenance-uri.
Received on Thursday, 28 July 2011 14:35:36 UTC

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