Re: hadMember and wasInfluencedBy

Ivan,

I was reviewing my collection of issues on PROV,
and I found that we haven’t closed this one out.

Could you publish a change to http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html> ?


It appears that the errata entry that I proposed [1] is acceptable to the list (based on this thread).
There is only one diff between my proposed latest version of the errata.html [2] and the one currently at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html

Thanks for your consideration.

Regards,
Tim

[1] https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/commit/52683ab01c1900efc0053405f08986c46e531bf1#diff-6c9ca8508d7852cabade9f2a02537d63 <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/commit/52683ab01c1900efc0053405f08986c46e531bf1#diff-6c9ca8508d7852cabade9f2a02537d63>
[2] https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/blob/master/errata.html <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/blob/master/errata.html>


> On Jul 23, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
> 
> James,
> 
> On Jul 23, 2014, at 11:30 AM, James Cheney <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk <mailto:jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>> wrote:
> 
>> That looks fine to me, if I'm rendering the markup correctly in my head.
> 
> The page renders if you download the file and view there.
> 
>> 
>> Is there some versioning of prov-o.owl that will reflect this change?
> 
> Yes. To be done at some point in late August.
> The issue is still outstanding at https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/issues/2 <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/issues/2>
> 
>>  I strongly suspect no one has done anything that this change will break, but not sure what best practice is here.
> 
> That’s partly why I’m postponing the changes to the OWL, since I need more time than I currently have to work through the change control.
> 
> -Tim
> 
>> 
>> --James
>> 
>> On Jul 23, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don’t think the errata statement should mention the OWL, since it is non normative and will soon be updated.
>>> 
>>> How about: https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/commit/52683ab01c1900efc0053405f08986c46e531bf1 <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/commit/52683ab01c1900efc0053405f08986c46e531bf1>
>>> it follows the pattern of the previous errata.
>>> 
>>> If okay, then Ivan can put https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/blob/master/errata.html <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/blob/master/errata.html> at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html>
>>> If not okay, fork it and propose the change.
>>> 
>>> My notes for the change process are at https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/wiki/PROV-errata <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/wiki/PROV-errata>
>>> -Tim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This looks good to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:31 PM, James Cheney <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk <mailto:jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I don't think it is urgent; I just wanted to make sure I hadn't gone crazy, and make sure there is a note of this somewhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Would a one-line errata statement of the form:
>>>> 
>>>> "In the PROV-O recommendation and associated OWL ontology, prov:hadMember is incorrectly asserted to be a subproperty of prov:wasInfluencedBy, and this assertion should be removed in any future version."
>>>> 
>>>> be enough?
>>>> 
>>>> --James
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 23, 2014, at 3:09 PM, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> > James, Luc,
>>>> >
>>>> > We have a small collection of errata and OWL tweaks to make, but I haven’t had the time to design and set up the change control process.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you’d like to write up the errata statement, I’m sure Ivan can get it into the errata document.
>>>> > But I’m afraid I’ll be holding up the OWL change until I can get to it in late August.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Tim
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Jul 23, 2014, at 5:27 AM, James Cheney <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk <mailto:jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Good, that's what I thought but I could not find an issue discussing this.  I just found the discussion you refer to:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-07-12#Collection_membership <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-07-12#Collection_membership>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The related resolution about hadMember is a little ambiguous, but it seems clear from context that the intent was that hadMember not be considered a type of influence.  Following Ivan's response, I guess this means a short erratum for prov-o (and maybe a fix to the actual owl file)?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --James
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Jul 23, 2014, at 7:41 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Hi James
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> We explicitly agreed that membership was not a subtype of influence (or derivation) and would also remain binary.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>> >>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>> >>> University of Southampton
>>>> >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>> >>> United Kingdom
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On 22 Jul 2014, at 18:41, "James Cheney" <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk <mailto:jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Hi,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I was just working on something involving PROV-O and noticed that the ontology makes hadMember a subproperty of wasInfluencedBy.  However, the constraints and semantics do not include this constraint/inference (see Inference 15 http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-constraints/#influence-inference <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-constraints/#influence-inference>).
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I can't find any email or issues regarding this.  Was taking hadMember to be a subproperty of influence an intentional decision at some point (that I missed in writing the constraints)?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I think it may affect validity.  If hadMember is an influence then it cannot be part of a strict cycle of influences (i.e. one that includes a derivation step).
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> If so, is this something that needs to be fixed at some point (and is there a way to make a note of this for future reference)?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --James
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>>>> >>>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>>>> >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>>>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/>
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> - Web & Media Group | Department of Computer Science
>>>> - The Network Institute
>>>> VU University Amsterdam
>>> 
>> 
>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> 

Timothy Lebo
lebot@rpi.edu
https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo <https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo>