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[minutes] POI WG minutes 28 October 2010

From: Matt Womer <mdw@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:45:01 -0400
Message-Id: <8B347E4A-6A9C-41E7-89BD-202DBE82260E@w3.org>
To: public-poiwg W3C <public-poiwg@w3.org>
Hi all,

The minutes for the 28 October 2010 meeting are online here:
	http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html

And are available as text below.

Thanks to Jens for scribing!

The new action items are listed here:
	http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#ActionSummary

In addition, we identified five group action items for the next two weeks:
	1. Answer the F2F poll: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POIWG-F2F-2010/
	2. Update the related specifications page: http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Related_Specifications
	3. Contribute use cases to: http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Use_Cases
	4. Ponder the Table of Contents/Skeleton form for our three documents
	5. Consider whether you can be a gatekeeper/editor of the documents

NOTE: Due to the annual W3C Technical Plenary and Advisory Committee
meeting next week there will *NOT* be a POI WG conference call.

I believe I accounted for all who were present, but please let me know
off-list if I missed your name and I'll put you on the record.  I have
never found tracking regrets in the minutes to be useful, but please do
send regrets to the member mailing list if you know you won't be making
the conference so we can adjust the agenda appropriately.

Thanks,

-Matt

  [1]W3C

     [1] http://www.w3.org/

                              - DRAFT -

           Points of Interest Working Group Teleconference

27 Oct 2010

  [2]Agenda

     [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-poiwg/2010Oct/0049

  See also: [3]IRC log

     [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-irc

Attendees

  Present
         Andy_Braun, Vinnie_Reynolds, Marco_MArengo, Gary_Gale,
         Jens_de_Smit, Jacques_Lemordant, Karl_Seiler,
         Ronald_van_der_Lingen, Dan_Brickley, Matt_Womer

  Regrets

  Chair
         Andy, Matt

  Scribe
         jdesmit

Contents

    * [4]Topics
        1. [5]The Wiki
        2. [6]Mailing list usage
        3. [7]Agenda handling
        4. [8]Face-to-Face
        5. [9]Action Item Review: Terminology
        6. [10]Action Item Review: Use cases
        7. [11]Reviewing Our Deliverables
        8. [12]Action items for everyone
        9. [13]Use Case Organization
       10. [14]Other business
    * [15]Summary of Action Items
    _________________________________________________________

  <trackbot> Date: 27 October 2010

  <Karl_> karl seiler in on the call

  <matt> Scribe: jdesmit

  ajbarun: walks through the agenda

The Wiki

  ajbraun: re-iterates jdesmit's proposal how to handle editing the
  terminology wiki

  <matt> [16]Jens wiki mail

    [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2010Oct/0022.html

  <ggale> +1 to that suggestion

  <danbri> +1 public is good!

Mailing list usage

  <matt> ACTION: andrew to send out mail describing mailing list usage
  [recorded in
  [17]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action01]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Send out mail describing mailing list
  usage [on Andrew Braun - due 2010-11-03].

  ajbraun: proposes to do as much discussion on the public list

  matt: only use member mailing list for arranging f2f and such; stuff
  that is REALLY only relevant to member
  ... issues that need resolution when there is a problem that needs a
  resolution, that's member list. the rest is public list

  ajbraun: even updating the wiki and getting the word out is good for
  the public list

  <matt> [18]Participant list

    [18] http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=45386&public=1

  matt: you can set up watchlists for the wiki if you want to track
  something

  Gary: is the wiki editable by all?

  matt: no, only WG members
  ... we will need to decide how to organize the wiki, but it's
  working out ok now. future action item though

Agenda handling

  <matt> [19]Agenda page

    [19] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Agenda

  matt: Andy put up a page with all the agendas. you can edit the
  agenda if you have items and Andy will finalize it ~ 48hrs before
  the next call

  <matt> [[He will organize the suggestions and send out an official
  agenda 24-48 hours in advance]]

Face-to-Face

  ajbraun: sent out a proposal for face to face 8-9 december in
  Atlanta

  <matt> [20]Poll for F2F in Atlanta

    [20] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POIWG-F2F-2010/

  ajbraun: would like to get a feeling for how many people will
  attend, please fill in the poll

  ggale: can't make it that week. the week of the 13th would suit me
  better

  <danbri> (though I won't be able to make the trip, I know that...)

  ajbraun: would be good if we know what we're up to before the next
  call

  <ggale> Idealistic but it would be good if we could *all* be there
  ... would achieve much more IMHO

  jdesmit: can't make it either if it's that weel

  <Ronald> For me a week later (13th) would be a bit better as well

  ronald: would like the 13th better as well

  <ggale> Suggestion ... if there's too much dissent on the f2f
  meeting ... we could push it to early 2011 after the New Year
  festivities

  ajbraun: later may cause us trouble with holidays and all

Action Item Review: Terminology

  <matt> [21]Terminology Wiki page

    [21] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Terminology

  <ggale> +q

  ajbraun: started a terminology wiki

  <ajbraun> matt, Need to head out. I think the terminology is a good
  start

  ggale: started the wiki page by going through old conversations
  ... probably some gaps in it, definitely a WIP, hopefully will grow
  in the next weeks

  ajbraun: was a good start

  <ajbraun> bye to all sorry for the speedy exit. ANSWER the POLL
  please

  matt: takes over chairing from Andy who got another meeting

  <vin> I'm having trouble dialling in. I'm temporarily in a new home,
  and have no international call privelages. my colleague vinod is
  here though who can answer questions on my behalf

  matt: mail from Christine: what was the purpose of the terminology
  wiki?

  <matt> [22]Jens reply

    [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2010Oct/0022.html

  <ajbraun> Try calling through google chat should be free to US
  number

  ggale: jens' email summarizes my proposal: the terminology is for
  within the group

  <ggale> +1 for reviewing action items

  <matt> [23]Tracker actions

    [23] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/track/actions

  <matt> "ACTION-4"

  <matt> [24]Action 4

    [24] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/track/actions/4

  <ggale> Mea culpa .... will know for next time

  matt: going over how to work with action items when typing e-mails

  <Karl_> +q

  <matt> close ACTION-4

  <trackbot> ACTION-4 Start terminology page on POI wiki closed

  <ggale> Yay!

  matt: shows how to close an action item through irc

  <matt> [25]Open Action Items

    [25] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/track/actions/open

  <Zakim> matt, you wanted to address the questions from mail

  <matt> ack

  <matt> karl

Action Item Review: Use cases

  Karl_: about ACTION-3, not sure if my spreadsheet got through to the
  rest because permissions had not been setup yet

  matt: did not see it...

  Karl_: can I send it through again?

  matt: send it through the public mailing list or the wiki. If it's
  not too big, do it on the list

  <matt> close ACTION-5

  <trackbot> ACTION-5 Introduce Matt and Andy to Korean potential IEs
  closed

  <matt> ACTION: matt to follow-up on Korean contacts [recorded in
  [26]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action02]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Follow-up on Korean contacts [on Matt
  Womer - due 2010-11-03].

  <Karl_> ACTION-3 sent to member email

  <Ronald> got the mail

  <matt> [27]Karl's action item

    [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-poiwg/2010Oct/0058.html

  Karl_: sent the results of ACTION-3

  matt: shall we walk through it?

  Karl_: 4 categories; Search, Destination Selection, B2B,
  Informational

  <matt> ACTION: Karl to move usecases XLS to wiki [recorded in
  [28]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action03]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Move usecases XLS to wiki [on Karl
  Seiler - due 2010-11-03].

  matt: go through it one by one?

  Karl_: let's not take call time for that, but everybody please read
  through it

  <scribe> ACTION: all to read Karl's use cases once on the wiki
  [recorded in
  [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action04]

Reviewing Our Deliverables

  matt: time to start thinking about what we're going to be producing

  <matt> [30]Charter

    [30] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/charter/

  matt: charter is mostly a stake in the ground to get going from

  <ggale> +q

  matt: charter contains a 'recommendation' and some 'notes'.
  difference between recommendation and notes is that a recommendation
  is subject to all the IP hoo-ha of the W3C, notes are less stringent

  <Karl_> lets add that term to the list - "IP hoo-ha"

  matt: reiterates the deliveables in the charter

  ggale: I have a problem with the phrase "focus on POI use within AR
  applications"
  ... there are a whole lot of non-AR POI use cases in the real world
  right now
  ... a focus on AR would be a disservice to the rest of the field

  matt: AR was the main driver for this group forming
  ... we can also add deliverables if we want to
  ... that's why the "core" deliverable is formulated AR-free

  ggale: AR as driver for the WG is new to me

  <Karl_> yes for AR is an example of the need for connectivity, one
  of many uses, but not the only or core purpose

  <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to comment on " This group will primarily
  focus on POI use within AR applications "

  ggale: all this AR on the charter might put off people

  <Karl_> so what's the process to amend the charter?

  matt: we can have a separate AR call or taskforce if we need to.

  <danbri> what's good for general POI exchange, so long as it's
  extensible, should be good for AR; and AR is a great sanity-check
  use case for us

  matt: I think the "core" is where most of the hard work is going to
  be done

  <ggale> So does someone want to take a stab at rewording the
  charter?

  <Ronald> Agree that the core POI should be general, and use AR as a
  good use case

  and we really should keep extensibility and mutiple uses in mind

  matt: don't be put off by the word AR just yet
  ... amending the charter already might be a little early

  <marengo> +1 to keep AR in the background (e.g. a use case)

  <ggale> Not trying to derail ... merely clarify

  <danbri> I take it along lines of ... "This group will primarily
  focus on POI re-use; in particular taking AR applications as a
  source for requirements and for evaluating it's work in a demanding
  setting." (but +1 on not formally redoing the charter)

  +1

  <ggale> Someone's line died

  matt: previous process that worked is starting with a ToC

  <danbri> matt?

  <danbri> we lost audio

  <ggale> I can hear myself on echo so I must still be on the call

  matt: sorry, phone crashed
  ... so, start off with a skeleton ToC/document structure

  <jlemorda> AR is probably more difficult than non AR?

  matt: anyone want to volunteer to start on this doc, manage the
  process?

  <jlemorda> yes

  Karl_: from the e-mail I gather there's a lot of good existing work
  that we should use

  <matt> [[I should have started with reviewing what's out there,
  yikes, sorry]]

  Karl_: we really should pull together budding standards, emerging
  POI formats that are in the world out there
  ... and then as a group do cherry picking on the best ones

  matt: maybe we want to start a wiki page collecting existing
  standards?

  <Karl_> right and start the work of extracting pros and cons and
  best reuse sections

  <matt> [31]Related Specifications page

    [31] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Related_Specifications

  matt: gonna make a wiki page with related stuff, please make
  contributions to it
  ... don't be shy about adding stuff :)

  <Karl_> +1

  <Ronald> Sounds good

  matt: next week is big W3C meeting in France, so no call
  ... but, please work through e-mail

  +q

  jdesmit: We should work on terminology and related specifications?

  <ggale> So to confirm, there's no call on 11/3 ... ?

  <jlemorda> will give a demo with audio POI at TPAC

  matt: yes

  <danbri> oh cool

  <Karl_> was the poll via email, can not find?

  matt: Jacques will give demo of Audio POI at TPAC similar to what he
  showed at ISMAR

  <Karl_> thx

Action items for everyone

  <matt> scribe: matt

  matt: 1. Answer the F2F poll:
  [32]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POIWG-F2F-2010/

    [32] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POIWG-F2F-2010/

  <Karl_> Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges - t get to the poll

  2. Update the related specifications page:
  [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Related_Specifications

    [33] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Related_Specifications

  <Karl_> good

  <danbri> where would i put something like this?
  [34]http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/oxpoints/index.xml.ID=body.1_div.2 ...
  ... oxford uni db of points (of various kinds) around campus

    [34] http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/oxpoints/index.xml.ID=body.1_div.2

  3. Contribute use cases to:
  [35]http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Use_Cases

    [35] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Use_Cases

  4. Ponder the Table of Contents/Skeleton form for our three
  documents

  5. Consider whether you can be a gatekeeper/editor of the documents

  <scribe> scribe: jdesmit

  matt: so these are the 5 things to work on/consider the next two
  weeks

Use Case Organization

  <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask about kinds of user (personas?) re
  Use cases (eg. client side .js developer, mobile developer, search
  engine architect, mapping professional, Actual End

  danbri: thinking about use cases: developers and such and end users
  ... how should we organize this?

  matt: haven't given it any thought myself

  Karl_: let's classify use cases by their perspective and perhaps
  some other categories. I'll take a pass at that

  <matt> ACTION: Karl to add a persona/perspective type field to use
  cases. [recorded in
  [36]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action05]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Add a persona/perspective type field
  to use cases. [on Karl Seiler - due 2010-11-03].

Other business

  <danbri> biggest distinction I see is end-user of some system,
  versus technology-user of this W3C POI WG tech/standard; presumably
  the two are quite related...

  ggale: do we want to try and build on the discussion of "what
  constitues a POI"?
  ... because I think we were getting somewhere, would be great to
  codify it somewhere

  <Karl_> yes, i will primarily focus on non-end user as we drill into
  details, those aspect of use cases needing enablement

  matt: sounds like an action item

  ggale: oh, go on then

  <matt> ACTION: Gary to codify on the WIki the "What is an Point of
  Interest" discussion [recorded in
  [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action06]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Codify on the WIki the "What is an
  Point of Interest" discussion [on Gary Gale - due 2010-11-03].

  ggale: another action item for someone: please beautify the
  terminology page if you know some wiki markup

  <danbri> if we chose say 200 *actual* points of interest, we could
  use that as a metric for when the group is "done", ie. when we've
  adequately described them all

  ggale: make it look as if we're a bunch of professional, not like
  this

  <matt> ACTION: Matt to make the terminology page look nicer
  [recorded in
  [38]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action07]

  matt: I was planning on trying to figure out a style for us to use
  so I'll take that

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Make the terminology page look nicer
  [on Matt Womer - due 2010-11-03].

  <matt> ACTION: Matt to work on style guide for Wiki usage [recorded
  in [39]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action08]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Work on style guide for Wiki usage
  [on Matt Womer - due 2010-11-03].

  matt: thanks all. remember that there will not be an offical call
  next week

  <Karl_> ok, adios

  <ggale> Have a good week everyone

  matt: the conference is open so you can start a chat if there's a
  big discussion

  <Ronald> Thanks everybody

Summary of Action Items

  [NEW] ACTION: all to read Karl's use cases once on the wiki
  [recorded in
  [40]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action04]
  [NEW] ACTION: andrew to send out mail describing mailing list usage
  [recorded in
  [41]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action01]
  [NEW] ACTION: Gary to codify on the WIki the "What is an Point of
  Interest" discussion [recorded in
  [42]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action06]
  [NEW] ACTION: Karl to add a persona/perspective type field to use
  cases. [recorded in
  [43]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action05]
  [NEW] ACTION: Karl to move usecases XLS to wiki [recorded in
  [44]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action03]
  [NEW] ACTION: matt to follow-up on Korean contacts [recorded in
  [45]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action02]
  [NEW] ACTION: Matt to make the terminology page look nicer [recorded
  in [46]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action07]
  [NEW] ACTION: Matt to work on style guide for Wiki usage [recorded
  in [47]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action08]

  [End of minutes]
    _________________________________________________________


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