- From: Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:41:17 -0800
- To: "Birkir Gunnarsson" <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>
- Cc: "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, public-pfwg@w3.org
- Message-Id: <OF358BA87E.3648A211-ON88257DF0.0065B1F0-88257DF0.0066A876@notes.na.collabserv.c>
Birkir ... I don't know what most screen reader vendors will choose to do with tooltip announcement, but my own preference would not be to hear the word "tooltip". Tooltip is a techy word, and my own view is that screen readers already use too many techy words. At one time, JAWS was saying "Description" in the message voice prior to announcing a description. It doesn't any longer though. Personally, I would prefer to hear something more like that for tooltips. Based on our discussion, tooltips are descriptions that appear on focus or hover... they are "dynamic descriptions". So, the AT should probably treat them as such. In any case, in the APG, we won't specify what the screen readers should say. Matt King IBM Senior Technical Staff Member I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398 mattking@us.ibm.com From: "Birkir Gunnarsson" <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> To: "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Date: 02/18/2015 09:52 AM Subject: RE: Experiments with ARIA Tooltips based on the last APG call Bryan Excellent work as always, particularly like the Douglas Adams reference. My brief testing on Jaws and NVDA with IE/FF confirms your findings. I even set Jaws verbosity to "beginner" and it had no effect on the tooltip announcement, or lack thereof in IE. I notice that you resort to using div with aria-label="tooltip" and role="region" as a container for the actual tooltip container. This matches with my observations that role="tooltip" is not given any special treatment by any screen reader I have tested. 3 questions: 1. What is the desireable behavior of screen readers for containers with role="tooltip"? Screen readers should announce the word "tooltip" and then its content, followed by the tooltip content or other accessible name, if provided via aria-label or aria-labelledby? That is my thinking at least. 2. Have you tested this on Voiceover, which has a native 7 second delay for announcing aria-describedby content. Does the built-in delay add to that time (I think it should, based on the spec)? Related: 3. I am not sure exactly wat this sentence in the spec means: "The use of a WAI-ARIA tooltip is a supplement to the normal tooltip behavior of the user agent" Is this referring to the title attribute, .. or what is the normal behavior of tooltips in browsers? I see this is referenced in the meeting minutes, I may just have to go explore. Unfortunately I missed that meeting on Monday but will join you for next time. -Birkir -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 12:32 PM To: public-pfwg@w3.org Subject: Experiments with ARIA Tooltips based on the last APG call I was running some compatibility tests for ARIA Tooltip support based on the last APG call, and found that it still isn't supported well. I've updated the Tooltip module for this purpose, at http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/Tooltips/Tooltip%20(Internal%20Conten t)/demo.htm Which supports focus ability as before, but also a 1.5 second (adjustable) delay, and Escape as a method for dismissing the tooltip. The premise being, that a dynamic tooltip container may actually not exist in the DOM until it is rendered, which is what is happening on this page. This means that, aria-describedby must be implemented to point to the role=tooltip container after it is rendered to avoid pointing to a null reference, this being after 1.5 seconds in this case. Again, as with live region support, this appears to work perfectly in Firefox using the leading screen readers JAWS and NVDA, but doesn't work reliably in IE using either JAWS or NVDA.
Received on Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:42:03 UTC