W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-pfwg@w3.org > February 2015

Re: make aria-owns to rearrange children

From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:39:49 -0800
Message-ID: <54E3A715.70507@oracle.com>
To: public-pfwg@w3.org
I think querySelector and querySelectorAll are available in IE8 but I'm 
not sure why this is relevant for this discussion as this is new 
functionality we are discussing.


On 2/17/2015 12:35 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
> James, beginning with what version of IE is querySelector supported?
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
> Inactive hide details for James Nurthen ---02/17/2015 11:56:32 AM---I 
> like the querySelector idea - it would give a great deal James Nurthen 
> ---02/17/2015 11:56:32 AM---I like the querySelector idea - it would 
> give a great deal of flexibility. On 2/17/2015 9:36 AM, Ale
>
> From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
> To: Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, Dominic Mazzoni 
> <dmazzoni@google.com>
> Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
> Date: 02/17/2015 11:56 AM
> Subject: Re: make aria-owns to rearrange children
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> I like the querySelector idea - it would give a great deal of flexibility.
>
> On 2/17/2015 9:36 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>
>     I think I like the idea to use querySelector for aria-owns value
>     (for all idrefs attributes?).
>
>     On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Dominic Mazzoni
>     <_dmazzoni@google.com_ <mailto:dmazzoni@google.com>> wrote:
>         On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:09 AM, James Nurthen
>         <_james.nurthen@oracle.com_ <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>
>         wrote:
>             One issue with aria-owns is that as soon as you start to
>             use it you end up with a massive number of idrefs. 
>         We discussed this problem a while back in the context of web
>         components, and there were at least two possible solutions I
>         thought could work:
>
>         * Expose reflected attributes on an Element, allowing for
>         example: parent.ariaOwns = [child3, child2, child1]; or
>         parent.ariaActiveDescendant = child2;
>         * Alllow a querySelector string in place of an idref, for
>         example <tr aria-owns="query(.leftcells .rightcells)"> or <div
>         aria-activedescendant="query([tabIndex='0'])">.
>
>         Are you still interested in pursuing either of those, or even
>         both? I might like to try implementing one of those behind a
>         flag if the group can come to a tentative consensus.
>
>         FWIW, I like Alexander's idea of allowing aria-owns for
>         sibling relationships. I think we should do it either way, and
>         then solve the IDREF problem in general.
>
>         - Dominic
>             Something I would like to be able to do is reference a
>             parent node (with role=presentation) in aria-owns with the
>             effect that its children would be owned.
>             One place we hit this a lot is in grids with multiple
>             scrollable regions. So, currently, in the following 2 rows
>             table with 2 scrollable regions, we have the following
>             structure.
>
>             <tr role="row" aria-owns="r1c1 r1c2 r1c3 r1c4 r1c5 r1c6">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c1">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c2">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="row" aria-owns="r2c1 r2c2 r2c3 r2c4 r2c5 r2c6">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c1">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c2">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="presentation">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c3">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c4">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c5">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c6">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="presentation">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c3">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c4">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c5">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c6">
>             </tr>
>
>             What I would like to be able to (which I would like to
>             have the same result in the API mapping) is the following
>
>             <tr role="row" aria-owns="r1c1 r1c2 r1">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c1">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r1c2">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="row" aria-owns="r2c1 r2c2 r2">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c1">
>               <td role="gridcell" id="r2c2">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="presentation" id="r1">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="presentation" id="r2">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>             </tr>
>
>             Or, taking it one step further, allow aria-owns to
>             reference itself, which would place the natural children
>             of the element into the ownership at that point in the
>             order so I could do:
>
>             <tr role="row" aria-owns="t1r1 t2r1" id="t1r1">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="row" aria-owns="t1r2 t2r2" id="t1r2">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="presentation" id="t2r1">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>             </tr>
>             <tr role="presentation" id="t2r2">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>               <td role="gridcell">
>             </tr>
>
>             If people like this idea I would be happy to come up with
>             some spec text to allow it.
>
>             Regards,
>             James
>
>
>             On 2/15/2015 8:07 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>                 Hi.
>
>                 aria-owns is used to define parent-child relationship
>                 [1]. The spec says nothing how aria-owns affects on
>                 between-siblings relations, i.e. where aria-owns
>                 children have to be in the hierarchy. So there's no
>                 way for the author to control the ordering of explicit
>                 and aria-owns children. The idea [2] was to let
>                 aria-owns to refer its own children to change the
>                 ordering. For example,
>
>                 <div role="grid"
>                 <div role="row" aria-owns="c1 c2 c3 c4">
>                   <div role="gridcell" id="c1">cell1</div>
>                   <div role="gridcell" id="c2">cell1</div>
>                 </div>
>                 </div>
>
>                 <!-- somewhere in the DOM -->
>                 <div role="gridcell" id="c3">cell1</div>
>                 <div role="gridcell" id="c4">cell1</div>
>
>                 In this case role="row" would contain 4 cells in the
>                 order specified by aria-owns.
>
>                 If the idea looks reasonable then the spec could be
>                 changed this way
>
>                 Insert after existing wording:
>                 "The _value_
>                 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/terms#def_value> of the
>                 aria-owns_attribute_
>                 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/terms#def_attribute> is
>                 a space-separated list of IDREFS that reference one or
>                 more elements in the document by ID."
>
>                 something like:
>                 "The order the referred elements listed in the value
>                 should be preserved when their parent-child
>                 relationship is set. All explicit unreferred children
>                 should be considered followed aria-owns elements."
>
>                 Thanks.
>                 Alexander.
>
>                 [1]
>                 _http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-owns_
>                 [2]
>                 _https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1133213_ 
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 17 February 2015 20:40:24 UTC

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