- From: Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 01:51:10 -0800
- To: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
- Cc: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "Steve Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, Marco Zehe <mzehe@mozilla.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <OF6FB23FA4.8BECE9F4-ON88257D8E.00346260-88257D8E.00361F44@us.ibm.com>
Stefan, Stefan wrote: > Can you please go ahead and tell FS that they should support aria- > label (or labelledby, describedby) e.g. in > <span aria-label=”Out of stock – That is Critical” > style=”color:red”>Out of Stock</span> > in ALL their modes (important!) according to the ARIA spec WITHOUT > having a role applied on the span or on the body? First, which spec text tells the AT what to do with this construct? Please, please, do not ask screen readers to render the label on a span in place of the span ... or on any similar static element, e.g., UL, LI, P, H, etc. This would be a disaster. When we made aria-label global, I do not think this was the intent. I am not aware of anything in the spec that would support it. Where do you find it? BTW, if your only visual communication of the critical state is color, the app already fails WCAG. If there is a shortcoming here, it is probably in HTML itself. There are no elements that have the symantics of warning, critical warning, error message, etc. We have elements for paragraph, note, blockquote, etc., but nothing with the semantics for which you are asking. Isn't that a gap in HTML? Why not include a critical icon so the screen reader user can look for the graphic with "critical"? Then you kill 2 birds with one stone: 1. The requirement for a visual representation other than color. 2. Something easy to find with a screen reader. Matt King IBM Senior Technical Staff Member I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398 mattking@us.ibm.com From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> To: Marco Zehe <mzehe@mozilla.com>, "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Cc: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, "Steve Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org> Date: 11/12/2014 01:04 AM Subject: RE: First draft of ARIA 1.1. "text" role Hi Marco, I’m in the mood for some trolling since I don’t understand sometimes implementation logic behind. Can you please go ahead and tell FS that they should support aria-label (or labelledby, describedby) e.g. in <span aria-label=”Out of stock – That is Critical” style=”color:red”>Out of Stock</span> in ALL their modes (important!) according to the ARIA spec WITHOUT having a role applied on the span or on the body? If they refuse, having <span role=”text” aria-label=”Out of stock – That is Critical” style=”color:red”>Out of Stock</span> will make things clearer for the screen readers that there is more than just plain text .. namely ARIA-attributed text. Best Regards Stefan From: Marco Zehe [mailto:mzehe@mozilla.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 12. November 2014 09:24 To: lisa.seeman; James Craig Cc: Cynthia Shelly; White, Jason J; Fred Esch; Matthew King; Steve Faulkner; Joanmarie Diggs; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats Subject: Re: First draft of ARIA 1.1. "text" role +1000 to that, Lisa! Given the history of the web, I think it is safe to assume that everything that is nothing else is text, and that text does not need its own role. None of the examples I have seen in this thread convinced me that this is either necessary nor in any way helpful. Marco On 12.11.2014 07:48, lisa.seeman wrote: My 2 cents Each new role we introduce will create a learning curve for authors, many of whom will initially apply it incorrectly, killing the user experience, until an accessibility consultant tells them how to use it correctly. (Assuming the consultant is not also using it inappropriately - this is not to be taken for a given.) I say this based on a lot of personal experience. If we do not need a new role we should not create it. All the best Lisa Seeman Athena ICT Accessibility Projects LinkedIn, Twitter ---- On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:15:29 +0200 James Craig<jcraig@apple.com> wrote ---- > On Nov 11, 2014, at 5:41 PM, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com> wrote: > > I wonder if it might make more sense to change the definition of presentation or none to cover this scenario > > <p>I <img src="heart.gif" alt="love" role="none"> New York.</p> > > to read "I love New York" instead of "I New York" As Matt alluded, the ARIA 1.0 "presentation" role ("none" is a 1.1 synonym role of "presentation") does not expose any attribute or role semantics, so this would not expose the text alternative. > The glyph scenario is different, because it is text, and is often read as a single character. I don't think it'd always be limited to a single character. > But, do we need a role for that? Would this work instead? > > <p>I <span aria-label="love">♥</span> New York.</p> The role of the span is ambiguous here. Some platforms don't expose the span at all, preferring to flatten the selection string, so there is no element on which to hang the label. (Though that might just be an implementation detail.) James
Received on Wednesday, 12 November 2014 09:51:44 UTC