RE: First draft of ARIA 1.1. "text" role

Hi Marco,

because (as I have written) from an implementers viewpoint, adding a “trigger“ or a member in the list of
roles where ARIA labelling has to be supported (which is what they actually do for some but not all roles) is maybe on a higher acceptance level.

However,

<span role=”application” aria-label=”Out of stock – That is  Critical” style=”color:red”>Out of Stock</span>

will work already, too, but role=application will be likely deprecated in ARIA 1.1.

Regarding your last post: Applause for the FF / NVDA support of this but I do not see any contradiction in emphasizing by role that something is more than just plain text.

Best Regards + Troll Greetings
Stefan


From: Marco Zehe [mailto:mzehe@mozilla.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 12. November 2014 10:28
To: Schnabel, Stefan; lisa.seeman; James Craig
Cc: Cynthia Shelly; White, Jason J; Fred Esch; Matthew King; Steve Faulkner; Joanmarie Diggs; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
Subject: Re: First draft of ARIA 1.1. "text" role

Hi Stefan,

OK, trolling back:
What makes you think they'll support role="text" if they don't get aria labelling right now?

Marco
On 12.11.2014 10:04, Schnabel, Stefan wrote:
Hi Marco,

I’m in the mood for some trolling since I don’t understand sometimes implementation logic behind.

Can you please go ahead and tell FS that they should support aria-label (or labelledby, describedby) e.g. in

<span aria-label=”Out of stock – That is  Critical” style=”color:red”>Out of Stock</span>

in ALL their modes (important!) according to the ARIA spec WITHOUT having a role applied on the span or on the body?

If they refuse, having

<span role=”text” aria-label=”Out of stock – That is  Critical” style=”color:red”>Out of Stock</span>

will make things clearer for the screen readers that there is more than just plain text .. namely ARIA-attributed text.

Best Regards
Stefan

From: Marco Zehe [mailto:mzehe@mozilla.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 12. November 2014 09:24
To: lisa.seeman; James Craig
Cc: Cynthia Shelly; White, Jason J; Fred Esch; Matthew King; Steve Faulkner; Joanmarie Diggs; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
Subject: Re: First draft of ARIA 1.1. "text" role

+1000 to that, Lisa! Given the history of the web, I think it is safe to assume that everything that is nothing else is text, and that text does not need its own role. None of the examples I have seen in this thread convinced me that this is either necessary nor in any way helpful.

Marco


On 12.11.2014 07:48, lisa.seeman wrote:
My 2 cents
Each new role we introduce will create a learning curve for authors, many of whom will initially apply it incorrectly, killing the user experience, until an accessibility consultant tells them how to use it correctly. (Assuming the consultant is not also using it inappropriately - this is not to be taken for a given.) I say this based on a lot of personal experience.

If we do not need a new role we should not create it.


All the best

Lisa Seeman

Athena ICT Accessibility Projects <http://accessibility.athena-ict.com>
LinkedIn<http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter<https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>




---- On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:15:29 +0200 James Craig<jcraig@apple.com><mailto:jcraig@apple.com> wrote ----

> On Nov 11, 2014, at 5:41 PM, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com<mailto:cyns@microsoft.com>> wrote:
>
> I wonder if it might make more sense to change the definition of presentation or none to cover this scenario
>
> <p>I <img src="heart.gif" alt="love" role="none"> New York.</p>
>
> to read "I love New York" instead of "I New York"

As Matt alluded, the ARIA 1.0 "presentation" role ("none" is a 1.1 synonym role of "presentation") does not expose any attribute or role semantics, so this would not expose the text alternative.

> The glyph scenario is different, because it is text, and is often read as a single character.

I don't think it'd always be limited to a single character.

> But, do we need a role for that? Would this work instead?
>
> <p>I <span aria-label="love">♥</span> New York.</p>

The role of the span is ambiguous here. Some platforms don't expose the span at all, preferring to flatten the selection string, so there is no element on which to hang the label. (Though that might just be an implementation detail.)

James