RE: What is the expected behavior of scrollable divs within touch screen devices, and does ARIA apply?

Bryan, we make use of CSS scrollable <divs> in Dojo mobile. As you
navigate, say with voiceover, it scrolls fine. The scrollable div speaking
is not an aria issue. Are you labelling the regions?

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From: "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To: "'James Craig'" <jcraig@apple.com>, Matthew
            King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date: 04/16/2014 01:35 PM
Subject: RE: What is the expected behavior of scrollable divs within
            touch  screen  devices, and does ARIA apply?



   >Most users would not want such a verbose output, because so many views
   are scrollable. The scrollbars are likewise irrelevant if the user can
   change the scroll position via some other mechanism such as linear
   navigation or in this case, a gesture.

This is part of the problem I’m referring to though. Here is a conversation
that I’ve recently been having about this
http://lnkd.in/b-gg2tZ


When there are multiple scrollable regions within the same viewport, there
is no way to determine which is which, nor which are scrollable and which
are not.



From: James Craig [mailto:jcraig@apple.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:07 PM
To: Matthew King
Cc: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: What is the expected behavior of scrollable divs within touch
screen devices, and does ARIA apply?


On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com> wrote:


      James,

      A VO user does care what is on the screen in a touch device.

No disagreement here. That works as expected.


      Seems like VO gestures for 3 finger flicks for scrolling up/down and
      left/right should work. And, 3-finger tap for hearing what portion of
      the scroll is shown.

That works too. If you have a test case where it doesn't, please file a bug
at bugreport.apple.com.

Usability decision of a particular screen reader is outside the scope of
PFWG, but since Matt seems to have misunderstood my implication, I'd like
to clarify… briefly. Bryan's comment was about explicitly interacting with
scrollbars, and hearing regions announced as "scrollable." Most users would
not want such a verbose output, because so many views are scrollable. The
scrollbars are likewise irrelevant if the user can change the scroll
position via some other mechanism such as linear navigation or in this
case, a gesture.

Cheers.



      Matt King
      IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
      I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
      IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
      Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
      mattking@us.ibm.com



      From:        James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
      To:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>,
      Cc:        public-pfwg@w3.org
      Date:        04/15/2014 05:47 PM
      Subject:        Re: What is the expected behavior of scrollable divs
      within touch  screen devices, and does ARIA apply?




      Hi Bryan,

      The short answer to your question is, there is no recommended
      mapping, and since this is an HTML-specific problem, you'd be better
      off asking the HTML accessibility task force.

      The longer answer is one of general usability and assistive
      technology prerogative to make the best possible experience for the
      user. For example, I don't typically hear screen reader users asking
      for more information about the scroll views, b/c most of them don't
      care and shouldn't have to care. As long as they can navigate to all
      of the content in the scroll view, it shouldn't matter that it's in a
      scroll view.

      The lack of AT-triggered interaction on custom scroll views, is still
      another matter, and of the drivers behind the scrollrequest events
      defined in IndieUI Events 1.0.

      Cheers,
      James



      On Apr 14, 2014, at 3:10 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
      bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

      This is a question I’ve been asked several times lately, and I’m not
      sure there is a suitable answer.

      Basically, if you have a scrollable div, such as the following:

      <div tabindex=”0” class=”scrollable”>
      Internal markup and content…
      </div>

      Where the class ‘scrollable’ includes the rules for setting a
      specific height/width and overflow:auto.

      This occurs all over the web to reduce screen real estate, and is
      happening quite a bit on mobile devices where this is premium.

      So, for iOS touch screen devices using VoiceOver, you can move focus
      into the content region, then swipe up and down with one finger to
      scroll through the content.
      E.G
      http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/Scrollable%20Divs/Scrollable%20Div%20

(Internal%20Content)/demo.htm


      However, there is no native way to identify when a particular region
      is scrollable. Adding role=”region” and aria-label=”Scrollable” does
      nothing at all and is not conveyed. To my knowledge, this works even
      less intuitively on the Android using TalkBack. This makes it
      impossible for a blind user to know that content is scrolled
      offscreen within a particular region of the UI.

      The only ARIA equivalent that seems like it may have some value is
      role=scrollbar
      http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#scrollbar

      Though this refers to a trackbar or graphic, and doesn’t actually
      apply in this case.

      So I guess my question is, is there a documented method for
      implementing a label to convey that a region is scrollable for touch
      screen devices?
      If there is not, should there be one?
      And if there is, do touch screen devices support it?

      I’m not sure where the breakdown is.

      Side note: If you hear scrollable in the above demo, it’s because I
      cheated by using an offscreen positioned live region to announce
      “scrollable” when focus is first set into the region with VoiceOver
      running. No other method worked for doing this.

      Thanks,
      Bryan