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Response to your MAUR Comments

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 22:17:54 -0400
To: "Joshua A. Miele" <jam@ski.org>
Cc: public-pfwg-comments@w3.org
Message-ID: <20151001021754.GD1754@opera.rednote.net>
Dear Josh:

Thank you for your comments on the Media Accessibility User Requirements


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Janina Sajka, Chair
Protocols and Formats WG

Janina Sajka writes:
> Colleagues:
> Attached here are comments provided by Josh Miele of Smith-Kettlewell
> Institute.
> -- 
> Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
> 			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> 		Email:	janina@rednote.net
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> 	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:16:55 -0800
> From: "Joshua A. Miele" <jam@ski.org>
> X-CRM114-Status: GOOD (  14.38  )
> Janina:
> Here are my notes from our conversation earlier this week. I will try to
> send the list of terminology in a few days.
> Thanks again for a great conversation, and for being open to my feedback.
> Also nice to reconnect!
> --JAM
> 3.1 intro should not reference any of the stylistic preferences or
> guidelines for description (e.g., voicing, objectivity, timing), but should
> reference existing guidelines such as the DCMP description key.
> There is a list of different description approaches in the intro. What are
> the items in this list. Should it be a definition list?
> In addition to talking about monolithic description tracks, please talk
> about atomic description where individual description clips are synced with
> video.
> What about DV4. Does it really have to be real human speech? What about
> clips vs track?
> If DV5 and DV6 regarding independent volume controls for program and
> descriptive audio are requirements, then Open Description does not comply
> DV12 seems funny. Why address this specific buggy behavior? It seems like
> there are lots of undesirable behaviors we could call out, but this should
> not be a list of possible programming errors.
> What about multiple, simultaneous description tracks, such as might be
> desirable for different tracks voicing different information types, or for
> subtitled films where different voices would read different characters, and
> describer of visual elements; might want these voices in separate locations.
> TVD requirements talk a lot about UA/ST TTS options to be supported. There
> is significant overlap here with DV list and extended requirements
> Discuss hybrid extended/inline case.
> Consider content navigation by description element Is this what 4.2
> Granularity level control for structural navigation is getting at?
> Structural opinion about this document: the lists of requirements [dv] [td],
> pcc[, etc, should be marked up as lists or otherwise
> On 2/9/2015 12:28 PM, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >Hi, Josh:
> >
> >1PM Pacific Tuesday would be 4PM Eastern, and that works perfectly for
> >me. Do you want to call me? Best number is:
> >
> >+1 202 494 7040
> >
> >Looking forward to catching up with you.
> >
> >Janina
> >
> >Joshua A. Miele writes:
> >>Janina:
> >>
> >>Thanks for following up -- I'd love to have a talk. I do have some thoughts
> >>about the document and have been slammed, so haven't had time to write about
> >>them.
> >>
> >>Any chance we could schedule a call Tuesday, 2/10 at 1:00 Pacific?
> >>
> >>Thanks!
> >>
> >>--JAM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On 2/9/2015 9:39 AM, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >>>Hi, Josh:
> >>>
> >>>Just a quick resend of my email from the past week following up on the
> >>>W3C Media Accessibility User Requirements document.
> >>>
> >>>Have you had opportunity to review it? Should we chat sometime soon?
> >>>Please let me know what works for you.
> >>>
> >>>tia
> >>>
> >>>Janina
> >>>
> >>>Janina Sajka writes:
> >>>>Hi, Josh:
> >>>>
> >>>>We've not managed to have the telephone conversation we exchanged email
> >>>>about, but I have good opportunity to do so over the next couple weeks.
> >>>>Did you find items we should discuss? Do you want to propose some times
> >>>>to talk?
> >>>>
> >>>>Best days for me are Tuesdays and Fridays. Mondays are also pretty good
> >>>>for me, Wednesdays and Thursdays not so good. Let me know what might
> >>>>work for you.
> >>>>
> >>>>Janina
> >>>>
> >>>>Judy Brewer writes:
> >>>>>Hi Josh, Janina,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Did you manage to connect yet on the Media User Accessibility Requirements?
> >>>>>That work is coming to a close soon so we should capture your input, Josh,
> >>>>>if you think we're missing some things.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>And Josh and Philippe, do you both have any time on Friday, afternoon for
> >>>>>Philippe and me, morning for Josh, when we could talk for half an hour to
> >>>>>introduce Josh to the WebVTT and Timed Text work going on here at W3C? For
> >>>>>instance, would 10am Pacific, 1pm Eastern, be possible?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- Judy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On 1/8/2015 8:02 PM, Joshua A. Miele wrote:
> >>>>>>Judy -- thank you for the intros!
> >>>>>>Philippe -- I look forward to speaking with you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Janina:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>It's really great to be back in touch!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks so much for sharing the link to the MAUR. I will not be able to
> >>>>>>make the scheduled meeting on Monday, but I am extremely excited to have
> >>>>>>the opportunity to provide feedback for this document. I have already
> >>>>>>given it a quick look and it has set my thought wheels in motion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'm not sure if you're familiar with YouDescribe -- a description tool we
> >>>>>>have been developing here at Smith-Kettlewell -- but it brings a number of
> >>>>>>these issues out of the theoretical and into the concrete. Based on user
> >>>>>>feedback about our admittedly rudimentary feature set, I think I have a
> >>>>>>few things to contribute to the MAUR.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You can check it out at:
> >>>>>>http://youdescribe.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I think it might be helpful for me to review the document a little more
> >>>>>>closely, and then maybe have a realtime conversation with you, Janina. I
> >>>>>>want to make sure my feedback is valuable, so I'd like to chat about stuff
> >>>>>>a little before committing detailed comments to text.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>One of the things I'd like to discuss is the separation of traditional
> >>>>>>(i.e., inline) description versus extended description. our tool allows
> >>>>>>for both types of description in any given video, and I think they are not
> >>>>>>as different as this document might make them seem.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'd also like to discuss the assumption that a description track is a
> >>>>>>monolithic audio track -- we do it with individual audio clips for each
> >>>>>>atomic bit of description, and we think its important to include this
> >>>>>>concept in the enumeration of use cases.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'd love to talk before going much further in my feedback.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'm really sorry, but tomorrow and Monday are really tight. Any chance we
> >>>>>>can schedule some time next week? I'm available on Wednesday morning
> >>>>>>(Pacific -- early afternoon eastern). Let me know if that might work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks so much for allowing me to discuss this with you!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--JAM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On 1/8/2015 1:06 PM, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >>>>>>>Hello, Josh:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Great to be in communication with you again, and Happy New Year to you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I welcome your perspectives on our Media Accessibility User Requirements
> >>>>>>>document. We do believe we're pretty complete, but we also did not place
> >>>>>>>great emphasis on viewing the issues from a mobile perspective. So, your
> >>>>>>>input would be most welcome, even this late in our process. Certainly,
> >>>>>>>we don't want to publish something less than the best thinking
> >>>>>>>available.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The latest editor's draft of the MAUR is at:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>http://w3c.github.io/pfwg/media-accessibility-reqs/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Our next scheduled teleconference on this document is this coming
> >>>>>>>Monday, January 12 at 4PM Boston / 1PM San Francisco. If you can join
> >>>>>>>the call, that would be fabulous. I'll cc you when I send the agenda
> >>>>>>>Friday.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>If the telecon doesn't work for you, please let me know how we can best
> >>>>>>>get your input. I'm happy to have an individual call with you, if that
> >>>>>>>would be better. I look forward to talking with you soon.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Janina
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Judy Brewer writes:
> >>>>>>>>Hi Josh! And happy New Year!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>In December we were talking about some work you were doing at
> >>>>>>>>Smith-Kettlewell on video mobile accessibility, and how that might
> >>>>>>>>relate to
> >>>>>>>>two things under development in Web standards at W3C.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Here are two introductions -- or rather one re-introduction and a new
> >>>>>>>>intro
> >>>>>>>>-- that are both timely for the beginning of January.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The re-introduction:
> >>>>>>>>Janina Sajka is wrapping up work on the Media Accessibility User
> >>>>>>>>Requirements (MAUR) document through the Media Accessibility Group of
> >>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>HTML Accessibility Task Force. They're close to publishing a final
> >>>>>>>>version
> >>>>>>>>of that, but I think you and she should talk to make sure that the user
> >>>>>>>>requirements that you've been working with are covered. And actually,
> >>>>>>>>there's a Media Accessibility Group meeting this coming Monday,
> >>>>>>>>January 12
> >>>>>>>>that might be good for you to visit, if you're available then.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Janina, I don't have links handy for the latest editor's draft of
> >>>>>>>>MAUR, or
> >>>>>>>>the Media group's meeting time&   coordinates for Monday. Could you
> >>>>>>>>please
> >>>>>>>>send those to Josh? (And also please copy me as I'd like to take a
> >>>>>>>>look at
> >>>>>>>>the latest.) And Josh my suggestion would be that you talk with Janina
> >>>>>>>>rather quickly, if your schedule allows, so that you can jointly assess
> >>>>>>>>whether or not the requirements you've been researching are adequately
> >>>>>>>>covered.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The new introduction:
> >>>>>>>>Philippe le Hegaret is Interaction Domain Lead for W3C (sort of like
> >>>>>>>>my role
> >>>>>>>>for WAI, except he does it for HTML&   a ton of other Web
> >>>>>>>>specifications).
> >>>>>>>>One of his working groups is working on both WebVTT and Timed Text. We
> >>>>>>>>want
> >>>>>>>>to make sure that the requirements that we've captured in MAUR are
> >>>>>>>>reflected
> >>>>>>>>as much as possible in WebVTT and Timed Text, and I think there was a
> >>>>>>>>particular feature compatibility issue -- perhaps how to handle
> >>>>>>>>multiple
> >>>>>>>>captioning streams and/or multiple video description streams, or both
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>where I think this intersected with an issue that Philippe and I had
> >>>>>>>>tentatively identified a while back as a possible gap.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>So Josh and Philippe, my suggestion would be that we figure out a time
> >>>>>>>>to
> >>>>>>>>talk in the next week or two. But it would probably be helpful to
> >>>>>>>>exchange
> >>>>>>>>some info up front by email. Josh, do you recall more details about the
> >>>>>>>>particular requirements and/or feature(s) that you mentioned concerns
> >>>>>>>>about
> >>>>>>>>when we spoke in December?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>And actually, these discussions about requirements and implementations
> >>>>>>>>are
> >>>>>>>>related, so we might want to keep the thread going between both areas.
> >>>>>>>>Thoughts welcome.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Thanks and best,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>- Judy
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>Judy Brewer
> >>>>>>>>Director, Web Accessibility Initiative
> >>>>>>>>at the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
> >>>>>>>>32 Vassar St. Room G-526, MIT/CSAIL
> >>>>>>>>Cambridge MA 02149 USA
> >>>>>>>>www.w3.org/WAI/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>Judy Brewer
> >>>>>Director, Web Accessibility Initiative
> >>>>>at the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
> >>>>>32 Vassar St. Room G-526, MIT/CSAIL
> >>>>>Cambridge MA 02149 USA
> >>>>>www.w3.org/WAI/
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>
> >>>>Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
> >>>>			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
> >>>>		Email:	janina@rednote.net
> >>>>
> >>>>Linux Foundation Fellow
> >>>>Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> >>>>
> >>>>The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >>>>Chair,	Protocols&  Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
> >>>>	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>--
> >>----------------------------------------
> >>Joshua A. Miele, Ph.D., Director
> >>The Smith-Kettlewell Video Description Research and Development Center
> >>2318 Fillmore St.
> >>San Francisco, CA 94115
> >>
> >>Phone: 415/345-2113
> >>E-Mail: jam@ski.org
> >>Web: http://www.vdrdc.org
> >>Twitter: @VDRDC
> >


Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
Received on Thursday, 1 October 2015 02:18:28 UTC

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