Re: Introducing COGA to the Module 1 attributes

Matthew wrote:

> Questions were raised (IIRC by David Fazio) about the possibly
overwhelming nature of using a mobile/tablet device with
smaller-than-desktop screen and displaying many symbols on it. We
acknowledged this, and discussed that UAs/extensions will probably be coded
for very specific users and situations, so we'd hope that these concerns
would be addressed. However, some discussion ensued and the importance of
it being easy to set up help across devices was mentioned.

I'm not clear on this... if a tablet has a smaller screen size, then the
"too much info" problem will exist with or without symbols - maybe. (And
then there are smart phones with even smaller screens...)

There is a lot of different things that might impact this, including media
queries (Responsive Design), our simplification attribute
<https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-content-1.0/#simplification-explanation>,
as well as WCAG Success Criterion 1.4.4 Resize text
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#resize-text>  (NOTE: we will need to ensure
that symbols/symbolics like this are NOT interpreted as images of text - I
assert they are far closer to actual 'text' [words/concepts], *and should
scale with the size of the text*), as well as Success Criterion 1.4.10
Reflow <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#reflow> - where, if 1.4.4 *is*
applicable, as the symbols also enlarge, they too will reflow with all the
other text, pushing all content to a "longer" page, but also reducing the
number of visible symbols in the active viewport. (I will also assert
that if the symbols didn't enlarge it would actually introduce a failure to
low-vision, symbols-only readers - besides, don't we also expect the
symbols to remain 'attached' (above) the text it is augmenting/replacing?
There, even if the symbols didn't scale at the same rate as the text, the
placement of the symbols would be affected by the placement of the word it
is associated to, so when enlarging the text, the requirement for reflow
will 'move' the symbols so that they remain visibly associated to the
word/concept.)

I honestly don't think this will be an issue, but I do think that we will
need to get some additional clarification into our spec about the nature of
symbols, and the need for them to enlarge/scale *just like text*

JF

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:23 PM Matthew Atkinson <matkinson@tpgi.com> wrote:

> Hello Personalization,
>
> I was invited to join COGA's call earlier today and introduced them to the
> purpose, action, destination and symbol attributes in a bit more detail
> than on the TPAC calls. Lisa helped address the group's questions on the
> work we are doing. We got quite a bit of helpful feedback, including some
> very exciting links to similar work on which we might build. As with our
> TPAC breakout and COGA sessions, there is a lot of excitement and
> encouragement around the work we're doing.
>
> Minutes: https://www.w3.org/2021/11/04-coga-minutes.html
>
> Very high-level key discussion topics...
>
> 1. Several issues and nuances around making effective mappings between
> symbol sets and Bliss concepts were raised by E.A. Draffan. When we have
> some examples to show (which we will soon), E.A. would be happy to help us
> review them, I suggested maybe inviting E.A. to join one of our calls.
>
> 2. E.A. Also mentioned some existing research projects, including some
> related projects. I think that https://www.easyreading.eu/ is one. This
> has brought back fond memories for me, as I have attended events run by,
> and collaborated with, the team at JKU, lead by Klaus Miesenberger, some
> time back.
>
> 3. Questions were raised (IIRC by David Fazio) about the possibly
> overwhelming nature of using a mobile/tablet device with
> smaller-than-desktop screen and displaying many symbols on it. We
> acknowledged this, and discussed that UAs/extensions will probably be coded
> for very specific users and situations, so we'd hope that these concerns
> would be addressed. However, some discussion ensued and the importance of
> it being easy to set up help across devices was mentioned.
>
> 4. I passed on JF's ideas about a proxy service as one option, to show how
> the solution that the specification provides could be provided in a number
> of ways. Jennie was concerned that there may be some issues here with
> respect to corporate networks—we wouldn't want access to a proxy service to
> be a barrier to employment. Again we ACK'd this. (We were out of time by
> this time, but I would've added that we have a range of possibilities from
> proxies to local software/extensions.)
>
> 5. I think it was Jennie who raised that Microsoft has been doing some
> work on symbols in Edge, to aid understanding. Though I gather this doesn't
> allow mapping between sets. This could form the bases of another tech demo
> for us. Very exciting. Lisa is following up for more details.
>
> That's about all I have for now. We'll want to return to COGA with
> examples, when we have them, so that we can discuss any issues concretely
> with them, and iterate on things. Also we'll need to join future meetings,
> and invite them to ours too. They're excited by this work, as are we, and
> are keen to help us with it.
>
> I already passed this on to COGA and the chairs, but it was a productive
> meeting, and our work and I got a warm welcome. Looking forward to
> continuing to work with them!
>
> best regards,
>
>
> Matthew
> --
> Matthew Tylee Atkinson
> --
> Senior Accessibility Engineer
> TPG Interactive
> https://www.tpgi.com
> A Vispero Company
> https://www.vispero.com
> --
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-- 
*John Foliot* |
Senior Industry Specialist, Digital Accessibility |
W3C Accessibility Standards Contributor |

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