Re: OntoLex minutes 9/Apr/18

Hi all,

Just to clarify when this meeting will be today. I initially announced
13:00 CEST, but it seems Philipp in his last mail changed this to 14:00
CEST, is this okay with everyone?

Regards,
John

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Philipp Cimiano <
cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>  I have not heard any complaints, so I assume we will e-meet next Monday
> 30th of April at 14:00 CET.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Philipp.
>
> Am 23.04.18 um 11:59 schrieb Katrien Depuydt:
>
> Hi Philip,
>
>
>
> 14:00 CET on the 30th is fine for me.
>
> As for the discussion on Dictionary Entry, I agree with you on this.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Katrien
>
>
>
>
> Lic. Katrien Depuydt
> senior onderzoeker/taalkundige
>
> senior researcher/linguist
>
> +31 (0)71 527 2479 +31 (0)6 53627318 / kamer 104
>
>
>
> */instituut voor de Nederlandse taal/*
>
> Rapenburg 61 / 2311 GJ / Leiden
>
> Postbus 9515 / 2300 RA / Leiden
>
>
>
> www.ivdnt.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Van:* Philipp Cimiano [mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>]
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 19 april 2018 8:29
> *Aan:* public-ontolex@w3.org
> *Onderwerp:* Re: OntoLex minutes 9/Apr/18
>
>
>
> Dearl all,
>
>  thanks to John for the minutes and to Julia for the detailed response to
> Sander.
>
> Personally, I am not convinved about renaming "DictionaryEntry" to
> "SuperEntry". First "DictionaryEntry" says nothing about whether a
> dictionary is printed.
>
> According to WIkipedia: A *dictionary*, sometimes known as a *wordbook*,
> is a collection of words <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word> in one or
> more specific languages <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language>, often
> arranged alphabetically <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetical_order> (or
> by radical and stroke
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical-and-stroke_sorting> for ideographic
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideographic> languages), which may include
> information on definitions <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition>,
> usage, etymologies <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymologies>, pronunciat
> ions <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation>, translation, etc.[1]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary#cite_note-Web1-1> or a book of
> words in one language with their equivalents in another, sometimes known as
> a lexicon <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicon>.[1]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary#cite_note-Web1-1> It is a
> lexicographical <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography> product
> which shows inter-relationships among the data.[2]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary#cite_note-2>
>
>
> The relevant terms are: collection and most importantly to me
> "lexicographical product which shows inter-relationships among data". I
> quite like this. A dictionary is primarly a conscious and deliberate
> arrangement of lexical entries / words into collections, making
> lexicographic choices what to group, etc. The word "product" makes clear
> that a dictionary is an artifact that makes choices on how to present /
> group and describe language. It is a meta-object.
>
> The view of a dictionary as a lexicographic product which shows
> inter-relationships among the data is fine for our purposes. We could in
> fact even use this definition for our module. Under this definition it
> would be more than appropriate to call our object DictionaryEntry.
>
> I am fine with having one property describes with multiple (defined)
> ranges.
>
> Other than that, I would like to propose that we have our next telco on
> the 30th of April, if possible at 14:00 CET. Leet me know if this works out.
>
> Kind regards,
> Philipp.
>
> Am 09.04.18 um 17:13 schrieb John McCrae:
>
> Hi Julia,
>
>
>
> Yes that is certainly what I meant to say :)
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Julia Bosque Gil <jbosque@fi.upm.es>
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just a minor clarification for a line in the minutes from today:
>
> 'SuperEntry' is a better name than 'LexicalEntry' -->  'SuperEntry' is a
> better name than 'DictionaryEntry'
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julia
>
>
>
> 2018-04-09 14:38 GMT+02:00 John McCrae <john.mccrae@insight-centre.org>:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The minutes from today are below:
>
>
>
> Present: Julia, Francesca, Ilan, John
>
>
>
> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Lexicography
>
> Issues raised by Sander:
>
> JBG: Use of two properties describesEntry and describesSense, but
> dictionaries describe much more than entries and senses.
>
> JBG: Single describes property with multiple range?
>
> JBG:Is this sufficient to capture the structure of a dictionary
>
> JM: Probably sufficent, but some risk of not capturing all dictionaries
>
> One property with multiple ranges may be more flexible than multiple
> properties
>
> Technical distinction between ranges of 'describes' but is there a
> semantic distinction?
>
> JM: probably technically okay to have a single property
>
> JBG: SuperEntry of subEntry?
>
> JM: I think this is an error in my minutes. It should be SuperEntry
>
> FF: We aren't representing a digital version of a print dictionary, so is
> dictionary entry the right name?
>
> JBG: if a dictionary entry only has senses for nouns ontolex core is
> sufficient. however the dictionary has senses for multiple pos I must use
> DictionaryEntry. The use of dictionary entry implies the existence of a
> paper dictionary.
>
> JM: super entry is like an 'entry group' (as previously proposed) so
> perhaps SuperEntry is a better name
>
> FF: shows that lexical entries do not occur by themselves
>
> IK: what is meant by typographical? what is the purpose of lexicography
> module?
>
> aims is to represent linguistic information (JM: broadly true)
>
> JBG: yeah, some things are not linguistic, but somehow logical, e.g.,
> sense orderings
>
> JBG: In next telco we should repeat the goal of the module
>
>
>
> Key Points:
>
> 'describe' as a property with multiple ranges is acceptable
>
> 'SuperEntry' is a better name than 'LexicalEntry'
>
> goal of OntoLex is not same as TEI
>
>
>
> IK: how this relates to dictionaries. What about senses, when many
> lexicographers (e.g., Kilgariff) reject them?
>
> JBG: we provide enough tools to represent dictionaries
>
> JM: OntoLex is quite opinionated as to what 'entries' and 'senses' mean,
> so we need to bridge this with other representations
>
> IK: Looking at future goals is important too. 'SuperEntry' is more
> forward-looking
>
>
>
> Next Telco:
>
> 23rd is difficult for some so postpone to 30 Apr, 13:00 CEST.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Julia Bosque Gil
> PhD Student
> Ontology Engineering Group <http://www.oeg-upm.net/>
>
> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>
> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>
> AG Semantic Computing
>
> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>
> Universität Bielefeld
>
>
>
> Tel: +49 521 106 12249
>
> Fax: +49 521 106 6560
>
> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>
>
>
> Office CITEC-2.307
>
> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>
> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>
> Germany
>
>
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>
> --
> --
> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
> AG Semantic Computing
> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
> Universität Bielefeld
>
> Tel: +49 521 106 12249
> Fax: +49 521 106 6560
> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>
> Office CITEC-2.307
> Universitätsstr. 21-25
> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
> Germany
>
>