Re: Translating Lemon/OntoLex (Help wanted)

Dear all,

I went over and edited the Swedish glosses (quickly).

Best
Lars


Den 2014-11-23 13:19, QUATTRI, Francesca [11901993r] skrev:
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks for the good work.
>
> I've started adding my two cents in the list.
>
> Clearly a literal translation of the terms does not work; we should 
> really refer to terminology used in similar models as primary source. 
> If multiple translations are acceptable, we should either leave 
> multiple entries, or go for the most frequent one.
>
> Finally, a double check by mother tongue speakers for Romanian, 
> Swedish and Dutch would be great.
>
>
> Regards,
> Francesca
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* johnmccrae@gmail.com <johnmccrae@gmail.com> on behalf of John 
> P. McCrae <jmccrae@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 22, 2014 6:08 AM
> *To:* Elena Montiel Ponsoda
> *Cc:* public-ontolex
> *Subject:* Re: Translating Lemon/OntoLex (Help wanted)
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Elena Montiel Ponsoda 
> <emontiel@fi.upm.es <mailto:emontiel@fi.upm.es>> wrote:
>
>     Dear John,
>
>     Lupe and I were having a look at the translation of the ontolex
>     labels and were wondering how "flexible" we can be with labels.
>
>     We are of the opinion that labels should be as descriptive as
>     possible (without being definitions, of course) in order to
>     guarantee that users understand as quick and easy as possible the
>     meaning of the concepts behind.
>     It would be desirable that native users of a certain language are
>     able to deduce what is meant by a certain label without having to
>     look up the definition (or at least try it...). And that
>     underestanding prevails over conciseness of the term. And not only
>     understanding, but also fluency, I mean, using those words or
>     expressions that are more natural and fluent to the native speaker
>     instead of sticking to the original term in the Identifier (Not
>     sure if it is clear what I mean...).
>     For example, in the case of senseRelation, instead of saying
>     "relación de sentidos", it would be more natural to say "relación
>     entre sentidos".
>
> Of course... "relation of senses" is weird in English as well, 
> "relation between senses" would be preferable in English if a 
> preposition must be used.
>
>     IN the case of "translatable as", we would say "se traduce como"
>     instead of "traducible por", although the latter is 100% correct
>     and would be more faithfull to the original, so to say...
>
> Yeah, I find the English word 'translatable' to be quite ugly... but 
> concise. The reflexive passive seems a much better way to express this.
>
>
>     We were also wondering if we could use a verbal phrase in the
>     translation of an objectProperty or dataTypeProperties.
>     For example: writtenRep -> "tiene representación escrita", instead
>     of "representación escrita", so that the directionality of the
>     relation is clear and is not to be confused with "es
>     representación escrita de"...
>
> I would not put the English label to "has written representation" as 
> the direction is should be obvious from the context, thus I would 
> avoid adding these words to other languages as well.
>
>
>     In fact, I am not sure we are consistent in the names we have
>     given to Identifiers, since in some case we use "isConceptOf" (for
>     inversed relations?), whereas for the direct relations we just use
>     the name/term in the identifier but not the verb. The question
>     would be, why not using the verb and preposition, if needed, in
>     the labels for properties? It would make labels more consistent.
>
> Adding a verb and a preposition helps clearly identify inverses from 
> the original property, that is concept/isConceptOf is a more distinct 
> pair than something like isConcept/isConceptOf.
>
>
>     As for capitalization, you have use capital leters for all labels
>     in English. We think that it may be better to use the conventions
>     of each language. In the case of German, capital letters for nouns
>     vs. lower case for verbs. In Spanish lower case for nouns and
>     verbs, etc.
>
> Yeah with the exception of German, I think there are no fixed rules 
> for capitalization. I have tended to use title case for the English 
> labels as the labels feel like the titles of concepts... I am unsure 
> what is best, but perhaps we start with lower-case, as it is easier to 
> fix this if it seems wrong after.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
>     It's all for now. More thoughts to come.
>     Best,
>     Elena.
>
>
>     El 21/11/2014 15:51, John P. McCrae escribió:
>
>         Hi all,
>
>         It would be good as the goal of this group is to help people
>         to make multilingual resources, if we made the Lemon/OntoLex
>         model also available with multiple translations. To this end I
>         have started to collect translations of all the labels in a
>         spreadsheet here:
>
>         https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yATI7qxZYD2huxExIwjQusWmT-i2M70GEc5XvZyqhKE/edit?usp=sharing
>
>         If you have the time and inclination I would greatly
>         appreciate contributions, especially new languages.
>
>         Regards,
>         John
>
>
>
>        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> /Disclaimer:/
>
> /This message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
> information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are 
> not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and notify 
> the sender and The Hong Kong Polytechnic University (the University) 
> immediately. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, 
> or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited and 
> may be unlawful./
>
> /The University specifically denies any responsibility for the 
> accuracy or quality of information obtained through University E-mail 
> Facilities. Any views and opinions expressed are only those of the 
> author(s) and do not necessarily represent those of the University and 
> the University accepts no liability whatsoever for any losses or 
> damages incurred or caused to any party as a result of the use of such 
> information./
>

-- 
«Null hull,» sa Harry    | – Bögga? sagði Erlendur. Er það orð? |
(Jo Nesbø: Kakerlakkene) | (Arnaldur Indriðason: Mýrin)         |
--
Se aikainen matohan nokitaan!
(Reijo Mäki: Uhkapelimerkki)
----
Lars Borin
Språkbanken • Centre for Language Technology
Institutionen för svenska språket
Göteborgs universitet
Box 200
SE-405 30 Göteborg
Sweden

office +46 (0)31 786 4544
mobile +46 (0)70 747 8386

<http://språkbanken.gu.se/personal/lars/>