- From: Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
- Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 23:50:00 +0200
- To: public-ontolex@w3.org
- Message-ID: <5238CE88.7060508@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
Dear all, I feel that we are reaching a consensus on the naming, that's good. I propose we let the discussion settle a bit and we take up the point in a few weeks. We will have a poll in the near future. Let's start with the work on the modules! Regards, Philipp. Am 17.09.13 15:08, schrieb Alessandro Oltramari: > No need to challenge me :) > Sorry I might have missed John's proposal last week (I was dealing > with a bad allergy....to names?!): lemon-ontolex is a good compromise, > I agree. > Best, > Ale > On Sep 17, 2013, at 1:46 AM, Philipp Cimiano wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> regarding the name of the model, I agree with Francis Bond here. As >> it has turned out, the ontolex model we are currently developing >> really subsumes the lemon model in the sense of extending it with a >> number of properties, at least what the core parts of both models are >> concerned. >> >> So while the ontolex model is definitely new and based on a broader >> consensus, it is still very similar to the original lemon model that >> many people on this group have offered as input to the work of this >> community group. >> >> It turns out that much more people have adopted lemon than originally >> expected, partly because some people have been quite successful in >> lobbying, but that is exactly what is expected to happen in >> pre-standardization activities. >> >> So I would say that this group has a chance: the chance of building >> on an existing community that will set an important baseline that we >> can jump upon to make sure that our model receives wide adoption. >> >> By coming up with a totally different name, we might loose this >> community of early adopters (we might not, I concede, but there is a >> risk clearly). >> >> I think that lemon2 (proposed by me) and lemon-w3c (proposed by Aldo) >> are good compromises in this direction as they clearly indicate that >> we are talking here about an extended version of the lemon model, >> which, as it turns out, is what we have yielded by now. However, >> assuming that one day our model will become a W3C standard, the w3c >> suffix will be redudant as we might anyway have w3c.org >> <http://w3c.org> in the namespace. >> >> I also like the proposal of John very much of calling the core we >> have been developing lemon-ontolex and then the other modules: >> lemon-syntax, lemon-morph, lemon-lexnet, lemon-lime etc. I find this >> very chique an a good compromise actually. This is in line with our >> clear vote for fostering a modular approach. >> >> Having said this, I would like to challenge Guido, Alessandro and Gil >> to argue against this proposal ;-) I challenge you also to make >> proposals how me make sure that we do not loose the early adopters >> that could potentially be confused by a new standard with a new name. >> >> Just my two cents on the discussion so far. >> >> Philipp. >> >> Am 17.09.13 03:47, schrieb Francis Bond: >>> I would also vote for keeping the name the same. I find having >>> multiple names for similar things much more confusing than calling >>> incremental improvements with the same name :-). >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 6:21 PM, John McCrae <johnmccrae@gmail.com >>> <mailto:johnmccrae@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think Gil puts the issue quite well, renaming would be a >>> "fresh start". I just don't think we need a "fresh start" for >>> several reasons... firstly that the "lemon" brand is proving >>> quite successful, entirely due to the hard work of many members >>> of this group. >>> >>> Secondly, the model is not fundamentally new but builds on the >>> existing lemon core model, see attached diagram to illustrate my >>> point. I don't think there should be need for confusion between >>> the models as they are fundamentally iterations in the same >>> direction. >>> >>> Finally, looking to the future development of the model, I first >>> note we are a long way behind our original schedule. As it seems >>> that we have ended up more or less building on the work of >>> Lemon, I suggest we take this as a template for the module work. >>> i.e., take as a basis the existing modules in Lemon (where >>> extant) and then discuss how to improve them. >>> >>> Taking this in mind perhaps the best proposal would be that of >>> Aldo, where Lemon is used for the wider context of the model >>> created by the group and OntoLex used for this specific "core" >>> part of the model. Thus this core model would be "Lemon OntoLex" >>> and the modules would take names such as "Lemon Syntax", "Lemon >>> Metadata" (or "Lemon Lime") >>> >>> Regards, >>> John >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Alessandro Oltramari >>> <aoltrama@andrew.cmu.edu <mailto:aoltrama@andrew.cmu.edu>> wrote: >>> >>> As mentioned in a previous message, I agree with Guido and >>> Gil's stance. >>> Apologies for not calling in today. >>> Best, >>> >>> Alessandro >>> >>> On Sep 13, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Gil FRANCOPOULO wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> >>>> I agree with Guido. >>>> >>>> >>>> The new model is broader, defined with different people, >>>> under a different administrative umbrella, so this is >>>> different. >>>> >>>> >>>> Using the name "lemon" is confusing. >>>> >>>> >>>> In the future, if somebody says "lemon", we need to ask: >>>> what "lemon" are you talking about ? The old one or the new >>>> one. >>>> >>>> >>>> Using the term "ontolex", means a fresh and clean start, >>>> for new adventures... >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Gil Francopoulo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > Message du 13/09/13 14:45 >>>> > De : "Guido Vetere" >>>> > A : "public-ontolex@w3.org >>>> <mailto:public-ontolex@w3.org>" >>>> > Copie à : "Philipp Cimiano" , "Guadalupe Aguado de >>>> Cea" , johnmccrae@gmail.com <mailto:johnmccrae@gmail.com> >>>> > Objet : Re: ontolex telco tomorrow 15:00 CET >>>> > >>>> > Dear all, >>>> > >>>> > although, as Shakespeare, said "a rose by any other >>>> name would smell as sweet", I think that names matter. >>>> I think that keeping 'lemon' (or a variant) would >>>> suggest that the work we are doing is basically a >>>> follow-on of the Lemon initiative, which, at the time >>>> the group has been established, was not the case, at >>>> least in my understanding. Hence, I think that keeping >>>> the original 'ontolex' name is a better option. >>>> > >>>> > I'm unable to attend the call this evening, sorry >>>> about that. >>>> > >>>> > Regards, >>>> > >>>> > Guido Vetere >>>> > Manager, Center for Advanced Studies IBM Italia >>>> > _________________________________________________ >>>> > Rome Trento >>>> > Via Sciangai 53 Via Sommarive 18 >>>> > 00144 Roma, Italy 38123 Povo in Trento >>>> > +39 (0)6 59662137 <tel:%2B39%20%280%296%2059662137> >>>> > >>>> > Mobile: +39 3357454658 <tel:%2B39%203357454658> >>>> > _________________________________________________ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *John McCrae * >>>> > Sent by: johnmccrae@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:johnmccrae@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> > 13/09/2013 11:43 >>>> >>>> >>>> To >>>> Guadalupe Aguado de Cea >>>> cc >>>> Philipp Cimiano , "public-ontolex@w3.org >>>> <mailto:public-ontolex@w3.org>" >>>> Subject >>>> Re: ontolex telco tomorrow 15:00 CET >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Hi all, >>>> > >>>> > I apologise I will also not be able to attend as I am >>>> travelling today. I wanted to make a quick couple of >>>> points about the naming of the model. >>>> > >>>> > Firstly, the model is not drastically new in fact in >>>> terms of URIs 15 of the properties are exactly the same >>>> as they are in the original /lemon/ core where as only >>>> 9 are new introductions, and 4 are not carried over >>>> from the ontolex core (although these should be >>>> included in modules). >>>> > >>>> > Also, I am here at RANLP and /lemon/ has been >>>> mentioned in several talks including one of the >>>> keynotes, at tutorials and many times in the NLP&LOD >>>> workshop. Many people who I talked to about the naming >>>> of the model seemed not keen accept a change of name. >>>> > >>>> > For these two reasons I feel that we really should to >>>> keep lemon in the name but would be happy with Lemon2 >>>> or W3C-Lemon as a name >>>> > >>>> > Regards, >>>> > John >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Guadalupe Aguado de >>>> Cea <guadalupe.aguado@upm.es >>>> <mailto:guadalupe.aguado@upm.es>> wrote: >>>> > Dear all, >>>> > >>>> > I won't be able to join the telco as I have a meeting >>>> in another town. >>>> > As for the name of the model, the last 2 suggestions >>>> proposed by Phillipp and Aldo: lemon2, and lemon-W3C >>>> could be Ok, though I'm more inclined to the first one, >>>> lemon2. Exactly for the reasons given by Philipp. >>>> > >>>> > I know that Elena & Jorge will attend the telco, so >>>> they'll tell me about the commitments and the modules.. >>>> > Best regards >>>> > >>>> > Lupe >>>> > >>>> > El 12/09/2013 14:38, Philipp Cimiano escribió: >>>> > >>>> > Dear all, >>>> > >>>> > this is a gentle reminder that we will have our >>>> regular ontolex telco tomorrow Friday at the regular time. >>>> > >>>> > See access details here: >>>> http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2013.13.09,_15-16_pm_CET >>>> > >>>> > The agenda from my side is as follows: >>>> > >>>> > 1) Modules: decide which modules need to be developed >>>> and which use cases will drive them, fix responsibles >>>> for module development >>>> > 2) Name of the model: discuss different points of view >>>> > 3) Linking: what to link to >>>> > >>>> > I look forward to talking to you all on Friday. >>>> > >>>> > Best regards, >>>> > >>>> > Philipp. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Guadalupe Aguado de Cea >>>> > Departamento de Lingüística Aplicada >>>> > Miembro del Ontology Engineering Group -OEG >>>> > Facultad de Informática >>>> > Universidad Politécnica de Madrid >>>> > Campus de Montegancedo, sn >>>> > 28660, Boadilla del Monte, Spain >>>> > >>>> > Home page: www.oeg-upm.net <http://www.oeg-upm.net/> >>>> > e-mail: guadalupe.aguado@upm.es >>>> <mailto:guadalupe.aguado@upm.es> >>>> > Telef.: 34-91-3367415 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> > IBM Italia S.p..A. >>>> >>>> > Sede Legale: Circonvallazione Idroscalo - 20090 >>>> Segrate (MI) >>>> > Cap. Soc. euro 347.256.998,80 >>>> > C. F. e Reg. Imprese MI 01442240030 - Partita IVA >>>> 10914660153 >>>> > Società con unico azionista >>>> > Società soggetta all’attività di direzione e >>>> coordinamento di International Business Machines >>>> Corporation >>>> > >>>> > (Salvo che sia diversamente indicato sopra / Unless >>>> stated otherwise above) >>>> >>> >>> *_Alessandro Oltramari_* >>> Research Associate >>> Psychology Department, Carnegie Mellon University >>> 5000 Forbes Avenue, Pittsburgh PA 15213 >>> Tel.: +1-412-268-6284 <tel:%2B1-412-268-6284> Fax.: >>> +1-412-268-2798 <tel:%2B1-412-268-2798> Mobile: >>> +1-412-689-1514 <tel:%2B1-412-689-1514> >>> >>> Homepage: http://fms.psy.cmu.edu/member/aoltrama/ >>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alessandrooltramari >>> Twitter/Skype: oltramale >>> / >>> / >>> "There’s no such thing as the unknown– only things >>> temporarily hidden, temporarily not understood.” [Capt. J.T. >>> Kirk] >>> "To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily. Not to dare >>> is to lose oneself." [S. Kierkegaard] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Francis Bond <http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/fcbond/> >>> Division of Linguistics and Multilingual Studies >>> Nanyang Technological University >> >> >> -- >> >> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano >> >> Phone: +49 521 106 12249 >> Fax: +49 521 106 12412 >> Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de >> >> Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS) >> Raum 2.307 >> Universität Bielefeld >> Inspiration 1 >> 33619 Bielefeld > > *_Alessandro Oltramari_* > Research Associate > Psychology Department, Carnegie Mellon University > 5000 Forbes Avenue, Pittsburgh PA 15213 > Tel.: +1-412-268-6284 Fax.: +1-412-268-2798 Mobile: +1-412-689-1514 > > Homepage: http://fms.psy.cmu.edu/member/aoltrama/ > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alessandrooltramari > Twitter/Skype: oltramale > / > / > "There’s no such thing as the unknown– only things temporarily hidden, > temporarily not understood.” [Capt. J.T. Kirk] > "To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily. Not to dare is to lose > oneself." [S. Kierkegaard] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano Phone: +49 521 106 12249 Fax: +49 521 106 12412 Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS) Raum 2.307 Universität Bielefeld Inspiration 1 33619 Bielefeld
Received on Tuesday, 17 September 2013 21:50:42 UTC